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Arty/anyone can you advise on these stats if possible please

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Arty/anyone can you advise on these stats if possible please - Mon Jun 17, 2013, 11:54 PM
(#1)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,424
As I have now made 200 posts in forum and not started many I start this one

I use a free HUD so I cannot give yu my stats posionally im afraid

Its 3130 hand sample all @ 2NL

VPIP=25
PFR=13
3BET 4%

cont bet 60% (this 1 i think is too low but used to be much much lower)
steal 50% (shhh dont tell anyone

AF=2.7

next ones i really want advice on...

fold to cont bet 51%
fold to 3bet 42%
fold to steal = 68%

WSD 29 wsd and won 45

if the sample size is wayyy too low just imagine it 4 million hands and give me so feedback please

Thanks

rolo....dreading an answer but do your worst I really must get around to getting proper HUD
 
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Mon Jun 17, 2013, 11:56 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Hi rolo!

The one that sticks out to me is the PFR. With a 25 VPIP, I'd be aiming for a 20% PFR... too much calling preflop (which could be just the cards and situations, but I'd look especailly at the SB to see if there are a number of hands that should be mucked, instead of calling).

John


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6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 06:36 AM
(#3)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
I'm not a stats expert but I'll give it a go


Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
As I have now made 200 posts in forum and not started many I start this one

I use a free HUD so I cannot give yu my stats posionally im afraid

Its 3130 hand sample all @ 2NL

VPIP=25
PFR=13
3BET 4%

cont bet 60% (this 1 i think is too low but used to be much much lower)
steal 50% (shhh dont tell anyone

AF=2.7

next ones i really want advice on...

fold to cont bet 51%
fold to 3bet 42%
fold to steal = 68%

WSD 29 wsd and won 45

if the sample size is wayyy too low just imagine it 4 million hands and give me so feedback please

Thanks

rolo....dreading an answer but do your worst I really must get around to getting proper HUD

VPiP is a little high for full ring, should be under 20%
PFR and 3bet seems fine

Cont bet is low but as you say it's rising then it's probably in the right ball park - we miss the flop 2 out of 3 so a 60-70% CBet seems decent to extract value and keep pressure on opponents. CBetting with position especially.

Steal is OK so long as you get away with it. Be more aware of your opponents though.

AF seems fine.

Folding to the next few stats is not catastrophic. Chips saved are as good as chips won. Again you need to get into opponents brain as to whether they are bluffing or have the goods.

I think you VPiP is your biggest leak. Tighten your hand range, you're probably playing hands that look pretty out of position. Hands like QJs and KQo middle position will cost us. Have a check with all the hands you've won or lost with these hands in early and middle position and you'll see what I mean.

Hope I'm in the right ball park reading these stats
 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 08:41 AM
(#4)
MadMike261's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 31
As others are pointing out, your VPIP is a bit high.
For FR this should be around 20% or even a bit lower. At 2NL you can probably also tighten down at 6 max.

Also your VPIP and PFR should be closer together. More like 20 VPIP and 15 PFR.

Your win % at showdown is also low, this should be above 50%.
Tightening your pre-flop range might help this stat improve.
But this might be influenced by the low sample size.
 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 09:09 AM
(#5)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi rolo

I agree with the others that your VPIP looks high if this is full ring. However, the important thing is not your so much your VPIP, but the relationship between your VPIP and your PFR. These two should be fairly close together.

If they are far apart, it means you are playing passively. Loose-passive players aka "calling stations" are the easiest to win money off of... LAG and TAG are both playable styles, but TAG seems a whole lot easier since we are sticking to a stronger range of preflop hands.

I'm pretty nitty on FR running between 11% and 14% VPIP. The only time I call preflop is when several conditions are in place:
1. I have a true speculative hand such as pp, sc, Axs, suied broadways. (increases our chance of flopping a monster)
2. Two or more players are already in the pot (increases our implied odds)
3. I am in late position or the blinds (decreases the chance of someone raising after us)
4. I get to see the flop cheap (keeps our investment small since we are normally folding on the flop)

Also, be very careful (i.e. never) about calling 3-bets oop. Folding or 4-betting is usually a better choice.

Try playing a few sessions where you only call preflop when all the criteria above are in place. This means usually folding from the sb and never calling a 3-bet oop. This might be too nitty for your style, but it does work

GL!

Roland
 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 10:33 AM
(#6)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Hi Rolo,

Take a look here:

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...Statistic-blog

This should answer some of your stats
 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:20 AM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Hi Rolo!

Firstly, 3000 hands is a fairly small sample, but it's enough for obvious problems with some of the stats to be detected. Your numbers are fairly typical for a new player. I remember when I first started playing for real money and I'd read one strategy book. I thought I was playing "tight aggressive", but when I got a HUD a couple of months later, I found out I'd been playing 22/8, which is a typical stat-line for a semi-loose passive! While it's possible to make money with stats like that in the short run, the variance can be severe. (I originally went on a sick heater as a beginner, but then it all went pear-shaped).

Other posters have already given you solid advice, but I'll go through each stat and offer further advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
VPIP=25
PFR=13
3BET 4%
Assuming all hands were on full ring tables with these stats, I'd label you as a semi-LAG. You're playing more hands than is optimal, especially for a relative beginner. I'd recommend you tighten up somewhat, and do less calling pre-flop. With pots you play, you usually want to open for a raise, and your position is of vital importance. The hand charts I included in my blog are very tight in early position, and pretty loose in late position. I don't want anyone to follow the charts religiously (play according to your gameplan and comfort level, not like a robot!), but if you adopted a similar plan to mine, you'd end up with a VPIP between 13% and 16%. If you followed my calling charts, (or followed Roland's advice on speculating) then there won't be a big gap between your VPIP and PFF. You'll end up with TAG stats of something like 14/11 or 16/12.
Your 3-bet number of 4% is fine, but I wouldn't overdo it. I beat 2NL FR by usually only 3-betting with QQ+/AK, and often I would be flatting with QQ and AK, so my 3-bet was just 2%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
cont bet 60% (this 1 i think is too low but used to be much much lower)
This is fine, actually. Winning players will be usually c-betting anything above 50% of the time they have the opportunity to do so. Since you're playing quite loosely, you won't be hitting the flop particularly well all that often, but when you tighten up your pre-flop range, you'll be more confident you have the best hand on the flop, so will be able to c-bet more often. I think the sweet spot for c-betting on FR 2NL tables is something like 65%, but there are several players that bet much more often and make money doing so. My blog next weekend will be all about c-betting. (It might even take 2 or 3 articles just for that subject!)
Most of your other stats will normalise to "better" numbers as a result of improving your VPIP/PFR numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
steal 50% (shhh dont tell anyone
That's a little too high. Something like 30-35% should be your aim, although you should always adapt to the players on your left. (Steal more often from nits, less often from loose players)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
AF=2.7
Standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
fold to cont bet 51%
fold to 3bet 42%
fold to steal = 68%
Fold to c-bet is kind of standard for the long run, but could go higher once your range is tightened, as you'll have fewer drawing hands in your range.
Fold to 3-bet is too low and it's a clear leak, given your overall looseness so far. A number between 60-80% would be more standard. Since you are stealing 50% of the time, you should be folding to 3-bets by the blinds much more often. Your range is wide/weak, and their 3-betting range is tight/strong. Even being in position, you should be folding to 3-bets very often, as 2NL villains are seldom bluffing. Re-read my blog on what to do when you get re-raised.
You should tighten up your range in the blinds too, and fold to a few more steals. Calling in the blinds is a big leak. Don't worry that villains might be stealing with 87s or A5s. Only play in the blinds if you have two suited Broadways, AT+, or a pocket pair. Defending your blinds is really not important at 2NL. It just puts you in tricky spots OOP. Folding to steals about 75% of the time should be fine. Your red line will go down, but that's not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolo834 View Post
WSD 29 wsd and won 45
These numbers are typical for SLPs and LAGs. Your range is quite weak, but you're going to showdown almost 30% of the time, indicating "stationy" tendencies. When you get to showdown, you usually don't have the best hand. Simply by tightening your pre-flop ranges, you're more likely to be strong post-flop, with fewer draws in your range. Your WTSD should come down to 27 or 28, but your W$SD will go above the 50% mark, which is crucial. (It's all about the blueline!)

It might take 10,000 hands total before your overall stats average out at something closer to the typical numbers for a TAG, as your current stats will affect the averages. By gradually altering your style, you should transition into being a player with a solid winrate and less variance. Good luck!


Bracelet Winner
 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 03:39 PM
(#8)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,424
Hi all

very muggy here i think its goign to rain possibly thunderstorm (so hope my connection holds out)

wow no let me say WOW instant and good and clear feedback thanks so much everyone

sorry i ommitted it was all at fullring wrote it late but my bad

wow John I thought i was over aggro now not sure how i will get my PFR even higher and unfortunatelt my HUD a free one (with an offer) called Holdem Indicator isnt like the mor ewell known ones

its pretty basic in fact onl y th e stats i have given you are included there is a replay feature but i dont want to rewatch 3000 hands but you ar eright i probably do call too much in sb (but not as much as you may think) just goign from memory so it dificult to say exactly

@Oval I open up in late position ive table selected so theres usually/hopefully at least 1 fish at my table and iplay it a bi tlike th elottery i get in cheap and if i hit the fish pays me off with his stack

@madmike you stated "Your win % at showdown is also low, this should be above 50%."

I think i do get bluffed quite easily soas you all pointing out tighten up so lower VPIP hands played and get to showdown stronger

@Roland ive read your blog an dseen this before but not remembered to put it into practice as of yet so much to concentrate on/learn/adjust but it certainly make s alot of sense its just inthe heat of battle pulling the trigger

@Sandy ive read your blogin past but i wasnt even at a stage where i wanted tolook at stats back then at first glimpse thought blah 6max glad i continued reading

As for the postflop so flop and turn stats my HUD doesnt have them

you say you do not use a HUD but infact I think you do just not in a conventional way yu use the stats t try to improve/get better results @least i think thats correct

Arty yes i think im TAG yet some days/sessions depending on cards im a NIT(card dead days)...hmm i too went ona sick heater but that was in 45man SNG

When/actually during i first got my HUD i played some cash on a different site to getthe licence for the HUD...hope its ok to post them stats just to see how I have changed a little i feel and the main one was i have become much more profitable..back then i think cbet was much much lower(I could be wrong) also my steals were lower back then i think

yeah when i glanced at my stats i thought woahhh im only folding to reraises about half of the time sounds bad I do remember tilting off a few full stacks

Im not sure if im callin in th eblinds too much but i prolly am

now i wanted to give you my winrate forthese 3000 hands...only thing i ommitted bu t i didnt want it clouding th e advice given and i know small sample size ...im on 5 sites so would nee dto add them all together this HUD ain tliek holdem manger or pokertracker

when i first got it i did worse..thought HUD's wer euseless and i no wonly use about half of it...but if its needsan update or doesnt work for some reason im lost without it it works out pot odds and nw im use dto itimho is better to play with a HUD than not too.the next HUD i will buywillhaveeven mor estats but at least i be used to a few so it snot like bang 100 numbers al different colours and very offputting and take slong time to get used to it

hmm thast odd my spreadsheet now says 3091 hands brb i mustnt have saved update bb/100 = 44.99 = $27.81

So based on my HUD stats if i move upto 5NL is TAG as you have all described best to begin with ? ort more looser like i am now(prolly get eaten alive )

I think i should watch daves excellent videos on blinds and stealing and i will reread part9 Arty

Thanks again !

good luck to all

rolo
 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 04:50 PM
(#9)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,424
Have my stats changed/comparison ?

old stats are first(6737 hand sample) and in brackets are the new ones as above in 1st post 3130 sample

all @ 2NL FR

VPIP= 24 (25)
PFR= 14 (13)
3BET 5% (4%)

cont bet 60% (60%)
steal 45% (50% )
AF=2.5 (2.7)


fold to cont bet 45% (51%)
fold to 3bet 38% (42%)
fold to steal = 69% 68%)

WSD 29 (29)wsd and won 47 (45 )

bb/100 13.64 (44.99)

wow all numbers seem in th e same ballbark strange and i do remember getting into a few battles with manaics

any comments ?

rolo
 
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Tue Jun 18, 2013, 07:01 PM
(#10)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Your stats haven't changed much. In fact, if anything you've become looser and more passive pre-flop. As I said above, it will take a while to get your numbers normalized, but just tightening up pre-flop and folding to 3-bets more often should make you more profitable.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Wed Jun 19, 2013, 04:51 PM
(#11)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,424
Actually felt a bit foolish typing it out and the question as i soon realised stats were very similar

but my winrate has increased since back then so maybe im getitng more value and folding a bit more when correct to so

Thanks for all of your help

By the way i play very differently in tournaments i think well not too differently
 
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Tue Jul 23, 2013, 11:29 PM
(#12)
hustlerlumel's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 4
can any one tell me what to do when your card dead about 50 hands
 
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Wed Jul 24, 2013, 12:22 AM
(#13)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hustlerlumel View Post
can any one tell me what to do when your card dead about 50 hands
Patience, patience and patience. Keep mucking until you are able to find a positive situation to get your chips into.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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