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Toilet flushers...the new breed.

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Toilet flushers...the new breed. - Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:33 AM
(#1)
tonyn21's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 35
Ok you are on the blind and so end up playing a j8 offsuit two players call and the flop comes 2 j 8. Yay u now have two pairs this is micro so u know they play loose therefore u bet half the pot to secure ur hand against cheap drawouts,the first villian to call shoves as does the sercond so u call they both have suited hands 8 10 clubs for one and q10 the other two clubs have already hit the flop but they bet like the flush is already there... the turn comes blank...the river...CLUB! q10 takes ur chips and ur gone the only problem with this is it happens 90% of the time nowadays it is a trend tell me if im wrong. the flush draw ship in, suited hand and all the chips go to the middle no forethought just a kneejerk reaction. I dont know about u but im scared if this becomes the new strategy of the micros every good player will suffer...God help us. tonyn21.
 
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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 01:19 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,801
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Hi tonyn21!

With 2 opps in the hand, 1/2 pot is not enough of a bet to price them out. If the opps just had a flush draw, it would take 2/3 to price them out. Having a flush draw with extra outs from a pair makes it so that it will take 3/4 pot to price them out.
A 1/2 pot bet prices them IN to draw... and if they're priced in, then they should stay and try to win, as they will gain chips on average every time they stay.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 03:45 AM
(#3)
tonyn21's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 35
thanks jw! Im still learning so any advice is good this helps me!
 
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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 10:26 AM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
Be aware that players at microstakes will nearly always chase decent draws (8 outs with a OESD, 9 outs with a naked flush draw, more if they have an overcard or two to go with it) but they will never be a favourite against top pair or better unless they have a combo straight/flush draw. If they want to get all their money in on the flop, they will lose money in the long run, because their draws will come in less than 40% of the time. You had a bad result in the hand you described, but in the long run you'll make big profits by charging the draw-chasers.


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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 11:01 AM
(#5)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
well sort of off tropic....hiccup,

l tried to get a picture of a toilet as my signature,

Even went over a mods head to do it...lol

But with no luck......anyways,

Please know......with online poker, at any level......everyone plays poker....the good and the bad...

oh and maybe some drunk guy.

cheers
 
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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:39 PM
(#6)
chelle867's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 123
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi tonyn21!

With 2 opps in the hand, 1/2 pot is not enough of a bet to price them out. If the opps just had a flush draw, it would take 2/3 to price them out. Having a flush draw with extra outs from a pair makes it so that it will take 3/4 pot to price them out.
A 1/2 pot bet prices them IN to draw... and if they're priced in, then they should stay and try to win, as they will gain chips on average every time they stay.

Good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)



Goodness, you're amazing! Thank you John... really needed to learn this part in this way for me to be certain on how to keep this from happening to me... as I was feeling much like Tony on this one! Sure miss our talks where you patiently listen to me ramble and how you instinctively know what I am asking, even when I am not quite sure!

As I continue to read down I thank those that have added to this with their advice... it is very much appreciated!!!
 
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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 12:45 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,801
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Chelle,

Here's a blog that I wrote about it.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Jun 26, 2013, 06:05 PM
(#8)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
I would like to know ? If they are both suited in Clubs, why have they BOTH got the TEN of clubs ?

 
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Fri Jun 28, 2013, 03:34 PM
(#9)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,481
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyn21 View Post
the only problem with this is it happens 90% of the time nowadays it is a trend tell me if im wrong.
Ok, you're wrong.

Flush draws on the flop don't get there 90% of the time. Although it can start to feel like it when you're running bad... but if you actually track this every single time it comes up. you'll find the true % even over your small sample size comes close to the actual maths.


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Fri Jun 28, 2013, 06:06 PM
(#10)
73REX73's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 745
The player with QT has a straight draw also with the flush draw and they might think their queen is good, they might have 15 outs, do the hand analyzers think this is enough to call with ?
 
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Fri Jun 28, 2013, 06:10 PM
(#11)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
At micro stakes just pot bet a lot because opponents don't have a clue about bet sizing and a pot bet 1v1 doesn't give any odds except for an open ended straight flush draw.

This might not be the right play in every hand but it's optimal play in freerolls/ micro stakes.

Thank me later.
 
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Fri Jun 28, 2013, 06:19 PM
(#12)
Bill Curran's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,506
Is there only me that thinks it strange that BOTH Villains have the TEN of CLUBS in their Hole Cards ?

 

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