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Bankroll Builder

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Bankroll Builder - Thu Jun 27, 2013, 08:47 AM
(#1)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
I would like to participate in the bankroll builder promotion.
 
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Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:02 PM
(#2)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,020
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noitnoix View Post
I would like to participate in the bankroll builder promotion.
Welcome to PokerSchoolOnline!

Please read THIS just to be be sure of exactly what's on offer with the Bankroll Builder promotion.

>>click here<< for a complete overview of what PSO has to offer.

We will advise within 24 hours as to whether or not you will be eligible for this promotion. Please check back this time tomorrow!

Thank you for being a member of www.pokerschoolonline.com and best of luck to you at the tables!

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Jun 27, 2013, 09:04 PM
(#3)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi noitnoix,

You are eligible for the Bankroll Builder promotion, good job!
NB: Bookmark this page so that you'll find it easily in the future

First Step

Watch the following video and pay special attention to the tips on retrieving and saving your hand history from PokerStars. This will be important for the rest of your promotional journey.


After wacthing this please play some PLAY MONEY FULL-RING (9-Handed) tables at PokerStars and using the Hand Replayer post a hand here in this thread that you have questions about.
Here is a video on how to use the hand replayer.


Then when you have that done please have a go at the Poker Basics Course and pass the quiz at the end of the course.
So you have 3 steps to do to begin with and when you have all 3 done we will award you with your first bonus.

1) Watch the 'Getting Started' video
2) Post a 'PLAY MONEY' hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer
3) Pass the Poker Basic course.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 steps completed.

Best of Luck!


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Hand Analysis - AK in MP against very loose players - Sat Jun 29, 2013, 08:55 AM
(#4)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
 
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Sat Jun 29, 2013, 09:07 AM
(#5)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,020
(Community Coordinator)
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.

He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers.


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:42 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
Hi noitnoix! I'll take a look at the hand in post #4.

With AK in middle position, a standard raise of 3bb is appropriate. There's a call and then the small blind makes a re-raise (3-bet), which is called by the big blind. When the action gets back to you, I think calling is OK here. If I had good reads on the 3-bettor, I'd sometimes fold here (if he's very tight) because he's likely to have QQ+, but I'd re-raise (4-bet) if he was more loose-aggressive, because AK is likely to be ahead of his range, and it's best to regain the initiative. Calling is only OK because you have position on the raiser.
As played you call and see a flop, which comes 974, 4-handed. Since the raiser doesn't make a c-bet, it seems likely that he doesn't have QQ+, as big overpairs are usually betting for value here. I'd sometimes check behind and hope to improve on the turn, but betting is fine too. Since you only have ace high and would like to take the pot down immediately (what I call a "dead money grab") you should make a bet that harnesses some "fold equity". A bet of half pot is required. Betting only 20 into 80 isn't really enough, as it gives a bargain price for drawing hands to call. You're 3-handed on the turn, which is a 5. The board is very wet now, with multiple possible straight draws. I think checking behind is probably best now, as you have less chance of both villains folding to a bet. You check it down and the river brings another 7. You could make a stab at the pot, but you actually have some showdown value here, as AK is the "nut air" on this board; the best hand that didn't make a pair.
You check, and the original 3-bettor shows the same hand, which makes sense, and you chop the pot.

Hope this helps!
To get more tuition on cash game basics, I recommend going to live training sessions for the Wednesday and Saturday Games if you can. You'll even be able to play alongside other PSO members in the Homegame club and get instant feedback on the way you play your hands. Good luck!

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Sat Jun 29, 2013 at 01:45 PM..
 
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Tue Jul 02, 2013, 07:23 AM
(#7)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Thank you for your feedback. I had felt the initial reraiser and first caller had been rather loose aggressive for awhile so wasn't worried too much about the action from them in early position while I had AK in position. After the flop, I felt as I was sort of C-betting as everyone else checked to me and as I at least tried to show strength pre flop I wanted to assert my strength back into the hand, but I can see your point about giving them too good of odds to fold, even with nothing the 2 of them called and my plan there was to take a stab at taking the pot then since they were showing such weakness after the action pre flop. Thanks for the tips, they are well into consideration.

I have passed the cash game quiz now and am eager to get started.
Please let me know what else I can do to continue on with the promotion.

Thanks,
Barry
 
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Bankroll Builder Promotion - Thu Jul 04, 2013, 12:58 AM
(#8)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Hello? I am still interested in learning how to earn and use the $8 promotion money to begin with Bankroll Building. You had said:
Quote:
To get MORE tuition on cash game basics, I recommend going to live training sessions
I have not gotten ANY tuition so how do I go about getting MORE?
You recommend going to the live training sessions, but not why, besides the obvious academic benefit, is that how you unlock the promotion money? By registering and attending the live training sessions?
 
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Thu Jul 04, 2013, 06:39 AM
(#9)
royalraise85's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 26,020
(Community Coordinator)
Quote:
Originally Posted by noitnoix View Post
I have not gotten ANY tuition so how do I go about getting MORE?
Sorry but I disagree with you here.

There are 3 things that you need to do to earn your first $2 bonus.

1. Watch the Getting Started video above which you have done. This is tuition from a video we have provided for you.

2. Post a hand for analysis which you have done. One of our hand analysers has personally reviewed your hand and offered feedback on it. This is also tuition.

3. Pass the Poker Basic course. Have you done this? Remember that studying and passing the courses that we have provided for you here at the school is also tuition.

Please let us know as soon as you pass the POKER BASIC QUIZ and we'll get your first bonus to you

Cheers,

Raiser


Moderator

Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Jul 04, 2013, 09:11 AM
(#10)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
Quote:
3. Pass the Poker Basic course. Have you done this? Remember that studying and passing the courses that we have provided for you here at the school is also tuition.
Yes, I had already passed the Poker Basic course, to be sure I wasn't confused, perhaps you were talking about another quiz to another course, I clicked the link and it brings me to a page confirming I have already passed that quiz. I followed the course and took/passed the quiz prior to this promotion if perhaps that's the reason it's not showing up, idk.
 
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Thu Jul 04, 2013, 12:02 PM
(#11)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Excellent!

You've done all 3 tasks and you'll get your first bonus in the next 24 hours, good job!

Step Two

Use your first buy-in to only play the 1/2 cent real money FULL RING tables on PokerStars. Do not play any other type of game other than this. Post one hand that you had difficulty with here in this thread using the hand replayer and we will analyze it for you.
Please watch the following video and answer the question below.



List 3 reasons why a player may want to make a big bet?

Then study the Cash Game Course and once your happy have a go at attempting the quiz. Don't rush through the course, there's a lot of content there and the quiz is tricky so spend some time on this.

So you have 3 things to do to earn your next bonus.

1) Play the 1/2 cent Real Money tables and post an interesting hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer.
2) Watch the Bet Sizing video and answer the question below it.
3) Study and pass the Cash Game quiz.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 tasks completed and we will award you with your next buy-in.

Best of Luck!


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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QQ middle position, donk discovery - Fri Jul 05, 2013, 01:18 AM
(#12)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8


Here I got pocket Q's in MP, I picked this hand because it seems to be a trouble hand in cash games and would like to know how I can play this situation better, in a tourney I'd have no problem shoving this pre flop midway into a tourney (probably not first hand of the tourney though).

UTG min (.04) raises and action folds to me and I make it .10, after the fact I realize may have been better off to have made it .12, 3x the UTG raiser's bet, I don't remember the read I had on him but the min raise tells me he has something he'd like to see a flop for and knows that limping is a bad idea from that far out, perhaps it will influence a couple callers allowing for a cheap flop or it's a small enough bet that if he get's reraised he can back out of it OR I've been on the wrong end before of an UTG (not this one) limping or min raising intentionally hoping to get reraised to ensure they've gotten value out of their AA/KK.

Anyhow, he calls and on the flop I see the card I don't want to see, an Ace, still, he checks to me and having been in position and the last aggressor I still think it warrants a C-bet, learning from my previous hand analysis post I bet half the pot to give him a tougher decision to call (grant it he doesn't have an Ace), I bet .12 into .23 which would make it .12 to call .35, which would make the pot odds 3:1 for him to call or he'd need better hand odds than 25% to call me, which he does, shit, he's got an Ace.

Turn comes and he checks to me, I have no reason to believe he doesn't have an Ace, him checking tells me maybe he doesn't like his kicker, I don't feel it a good idea to bet again (even half the pot would be twice the previous bet) just to really confirm if he's got the Ace or not since I don't have very many ways to improve my queens. So I check behind, river comes, he checks, no sense in betting for value here, that could be exactly what he's doing holding the nuts figuring the only way he's going to get paid is if I bet, and if he is holding an Ace I doubt he's going to fold especially since who knows, the turn and river could have turned that crappy kicker into two pair.
So I check it over and he turns over KJs, wtf rage face! I spend a few seconds in bewilderment and figure the best thing I can do for the situation is put a note on him that 1. he raised UTG with KJo 2. called a reraise with KJs from early position and 3. proceeded to call a flop bet with an over card and no draws (for himself).

So did I play this well for the situation?
How could I improve playing QQ from MP?
How should I look at this villain moving forward? (after revealing a few more plays like this I think I'd label him a calling station and start looking to extract value out of him rather than checking down the turn/river)

Last edited by noitnoix; Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 01:25 AM.. Reason: Correction, he had KJs but that doesn't change much how I view this hand
 
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Bankroll Builder steps - Fri Jul 05, 2013, 01:21 AM
(#13)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8
1. Hand posted for analysis above
2. watched video and a player may want to make a big bet to
a. gain value out of strong hands
b. protect agains strong draws
c. bluff an opponent off a decent hand.
3. Cash Game quiz has been passed.
 
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Fri Jul 05, 2013, 10:36 AM
(#14)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers.


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Jul 05, 2013, 05:41 PM
(#15)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
Hi again noitnoix! I'll take a look at the QQ hand in post #12 and see if there are any ways to improve your play.

A villain opens for a minraise UTG. While he could have a fairly weak hand (something like AJ, KQs or 88), some players are addicted to minraises whether they have a monster or something more marginal. Since this player opened UTG, I'd credit him with something pretty strong, just because of his position. When you wake up with QQ, it might initially seem like a good idea to re-raise (3-bet), but think about how villain will react. If he has a weak hand like KQs/99, a solid 3-bet may make him fold those hands. You don't want him to fold worse hands; you want them to give you some value. If he has a monster (KK+), then your 3-bet gives him the opportunity to come back with a 4-bet, and then you'll know you're in bad shape. In effect, when you 3-bet versus an EP raiser, you manipulate his range so he folds worse hands than yours and only continues with better ones. In position with QQ, facing an EP raise I'm nearly always flat-calling, not re-raising, because there is more value in keeping worse hands in the pot. There's more advice on what to do when facing a raise pre-flop on my blog.

As played, you only make it 10c to go. Although villain should still fold to this small raise if he has a medium strength hand like KQ/99, in practice he'll call because the price is too cheap. So he calls and the flop comes A92. Villains checks to the raiser and you make a continuation bet. I'd actually check behind here. If you consider villain's UTG raise and how it connects wth the flop, he either likes the flop (because he has something like AK/AQ/AJ) or he hates it (because he has JJ/TT, KQs etc). When you bet the flop, it's hard for you to get called by worse. It's usually only hands that made top pair that are calling.
The reason I would check is that hands like JJ-TT/KQ will then think "noitnoix doesn't have top pair, so I must have the best hand, or I at least have outs". You can then get value by betting the turn and river, because worse pairs than QQ will always call (or even bet out) when they think you don't have the ace. In this way, you can get two streets of value.
As played, you bet and villain calls. Now you're frozen. You can't bet the later streets, because it seems villain has the ace. It turns out that he basically had nothing, and he made a bad call on the flop with just king high. You ended up only getting one street of value, by betting the flop. If you'd checked the flop, I think you would be more likely to win some money on the turn and river instead.
This is my general plan with medium strength hands like second pair: If I can check in position on the flop, then I'll put money in the pot on the turn and river. If villain puts money in the pot on the later streets, that's more profit for me.

This villain played badly - and I'd be noting his tendencies - but I think you missed some value by betting the flop. Next time you have something like QQ on Axx, or KK on Axx, try checking behind on the flop and betting the turn and river instead.

Hope this helps! I'll look out for you in live training if you can make it.

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Fri Jul 05, 2013 at 05:45 PM..
 
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Fri Jul 05, 2013, 07:26 PM
(#16)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi noitnoix,

Fantastic!

Your next Bankroll Builder bonus is on it's way to you, great job so far.

Watch this video that will help you on the cash game tables



There are three ways in which you can earn your next bonus.

1) Earn 10 VPPs AFTER receiving this bonus and you will automatically be credited with the next bonus. Let us know if you hit that target
2) If you lose your this bonus at the tables please post the hands where you lost the money with here in this thread. As soon as you post the losing hands we will advise on the next step.
3) If you make a first deposit at PokerStars you will automatically be awarded your remaining bonuses from the Bankroll Builder promotion.

Best of luck to you at the tables and we are here to help you should you have any questions.

Joss


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Busting Out :( - Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:40 PM
(#17)
noitnoix's Avatar
Since: Jun 2013
Posts: 8


Here is not my last hand I went out on but the one that led to my downfall...followed by a 99 shove that ended it.

The villain I had really pegged as a calling station, been at the table for awhile and rarely raised pre flop, he raises min this time from EP so I figure he should have something but I have AK in LP and figure it's a good time to get some action. Flop comes with a K high rainbow, so I'm thinking I'm in pretty good condition, since if he had A anything or K anything (other than K and the other K or any pocket pair that matches the rest of the board) I should have him beat and I'm thinking I should be trying to get value you rather than getting him to leave the hand and bet near half the pot I think. Turn seems uneventful but he bets first this time, it makes two clubs now so still doesn't make a flush, Seeing his play before I'm thinking they are just giving it a go at being aggressive for a change, I mean, why would they be betting a flush draw on the river, what could they have had that kept them in it the first round and follow up betting on the turn. Seems unlikely that he had the pocket pair for that prior. River another club and the A I didn't want to see, gives me the best two pair and he goes all in. At this point my rationale telling me, mass raise, he is feeling weak and wants me to leave, I rationalize that maybe his aggression on the turn was due to him having gotten a second pair and I just made the better one, I call and am floored by what was really going on in the back of my head, as my second guess was what I might have done to preserve a hand, rather than checking again, betting some to control the action, betting an amount he was comfortable with so that I'd call rather than follow up the turn with a larger bet he'd have folded giving him a chance to make the flush, however unequitable, it worked for him this time and in retrospect, to have prevented that I should have either folded or more likely reraised putting the pressure back on him with a shitty pair and draw. In addition, I was happy to have continued the hand on the turn but think I should have reraised rather than calling, and more importantly, given the sudden aggression on the turn by the fish and their over excited on the river, I should have at least folded despite the previous call as I wouldn't really put them as the kind of player that's trying bluff me off on the river.

As you can tell I have given this situation a lot of thought and would love another chance to get back in there and solidify my game.
Your feedback much appreciated.

-Barry.
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:21 AM
(#18)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers.


2 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by HokyPokyToo; Sat Jul 13, 2013 at 12:25 AM..
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:28 AM
(#19)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,324
Hi again noitnoix! I'll take a look at the hand in post #17, which is a bit of a weird one.

If this villain has mostly been limping and calling pre-flop and rarely raising, then his minraise is usually a very strong hand. Many calling stations won't even raise AK, so I'd put him on JJ+. For that reason, I think calling is the best plan, as you could out-flop QQ and JJ. You don't want to raise, as he's likely to 4-bet and blow you off your hand. You call and the flop comes a super-dry K82. This is one of the few flops containing 3 cards of different ranks with which it will be impossible to make a flush or straight on the turn. It contains zero draws. When villain checks, his hand is looking a lot like QQ. I like betting for value, as I think he'll be unlikely to give up for one bet. Half pot will do. 4c into 12c is too small, as it might cause villain to make a bluff, because you're showing weakness. It's a really weird spot when he check-raises. Since this flop is drawless, he's repping a very narrow range. Since small pairs aren't in this guy's open-raising range, he can only raise for value with 2 hands: KK and AA. Any other hand he raises with is a bluff. You need to make a decision right now. I would be so concerned that he has KK or AA that I would usually fold. The min-checkraise by a weak player usually reps the nuts. If you call, it's because you think villain has turned QQ/JJ into a bluff. Your plan can be to call down on further streets, allowing him to bluff off some more chips.
The turn is a queen, and this is a terrible card for you, as even if villain was bluffing with QQ, he just got there. He follows up his flop raise with a bet of half pot. This looks like a value bet to me, and I'd just give up. Villain's line just screams "I have the nuts" to me.
As played, you call, and the river is the Ac, which is just about the worst card in the deck for you. You made top two pairs, but AA made top set, a backdoor flush draw got there, and (the very unlikely) JT also sucked out. Villain's overbet shove is very scary, and would definitely cause me to fold. In a way, he saves me money by betting so big, as I think I'd be fooled into calling a half pot valuebet. I'm mostly concerned villain has a set, whether it's QQ, KK or AA, so two pairs is no good. A flush is unlikely, but 2NL players do some weird stuff sometimes.
You call and get the bad news. K9s is really surprising. Villain's flop check-raise is completely ridiculous. It makes no sense, as you're never calling a check-raise with worse than top pair good kicker, so it's a bad value-raise, and you're never folding a better hand, so it's a bad bluff-raise. This villain clearly doesn't know what a value-bet is; a point further illustrated by his river shove. He's thinking solely of his own hand. i.e. "I have top pair, I check-raise!", "I make a flush, ALL IN!".
His tricky line is not one that will make money in the long run. It only worked for him this time because you were understandably confused by the weird line, and you happened to make a very strong hand yourself.

I can't really blame you for going broke here, but I would offer the advice that overbets on the river are usually by a villain with a hand that's close to the nuts. When the cost of calling is so high, you need to be correct so often, that it's simply better to fold if you don't have the nuts yourself.
This hand was brutal. I hope you have better luck next time, and can make a fold on an earlier street when it seems villain is likely to have you beat.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner
 
Old
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:07 AM
(#20)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi noitnoix,

Fantastic!

Your next Bankroll Builder bonus is on it's way to you, great job so far.

There are three ways in which you can earn your next bonus.

1) Earn 10 VPPs AFTER receiving this bonus and you will automatically be credited with the next bonus. Let us know if you hit that target
2) If you lose your this bonus at the tables please post the hands where you lost the money with here in this thread. As soon as you post the losing hands we will advise on the next step.
3) If you make a first deposit at PokerStars you will automatically be awarded your remaining bonuses from the Bankroll Builder promotion.

Best of luck to you at the tables and we are here to help you should you have any questions.

Joss


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 

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