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5NL full ring KK Pre Flop, raised on flop, A high

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5NL full ring KK Pre Flop, raised on flop, A high - Fri Jul 05, 2013, 08:18 PM
(#1)
GONKO85's Avatar
Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 2
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Villian was 19/7 over 30 hands approx. He was getting very aggro with any peice of the board. Shoving an underpair to the board in later hands against another opponent too.

I do not think villian was wreckless and normally did bet with something at least. Just not sure if i done the correct thing here.
 
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Sat Jul 06, 2013, 06:11 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
The point I would make regarding this hand is that your pre-flop raise is far too big unless you have some sort of read that worse hands than KK will be calling.

A raise from 18-22c would be preferable to me.

You then bet almost pot on the flop which again seems to big to me. He could have been re-raising with the A, set or Flush draw, given that you were essentially going to be playing for stacks giving the earlier bet sizing I think I would probably fold here if I could deduce that he had the A or a set. I'd be happy to get it in against a draw. I dunno what the most likely range is for this villain.

I'm also not sure if you are meant to lead out on the flop here when OOP so will be interested to see what the hand analyzer says.
 
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Sat Jul 06, 2013, 09:08 AM
(#3)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
agree with bhoylegend, betsizing to big. Against any standard player your betfold line is fine, since you are way behind pretty often and even against his spadedraws (which there often arent as many as one thinks in his range) you are not a huge favourite.

If this guy shoved with underpairs in few hands you saw of him its closer of course and hard to evaluate. I would probably still fold and wait for a better spot.
 
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Sat Jul 06, 2013, 09:49 AM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Hi GONKO85!

I'd like to know why you chose such huge (and non-standard) bet-sizes. There's a limp in front of you, so a standard raise would be 3bb + 1bb for the limper, making it 4bb or 20c, but you went with over 8bb. That kind of size will usually kill your action from worse hands, when you should be trying to get some value. When the 19/7 guy flat calls, he usually has a strong pocket pair or big ace.
The flop comes A82 and villain either loves this flop, because he has the ace, or he hates it, because he has an underpair. If you were in position, you could check behind, but since you're acting first, making a c-bet is appropriate. It's not really a value bet as such. It's a bet that prevents you being bluffed off the best hand, since if you check, villain can bet with a hand like TT, and you'll be playing a guessing game. Since the bets pre-flop were so big, the pot is large and remaining stacks are relatively small. With a faiily low stack to pot ratio (SPR) it's easy to get pot-committed, but you don't want to do with that with second pair. I would bet half pot. That's all you need to find out if you're winning or not, as half pot has enough fold equity. If villain calls, then you have to give up on later streets, as he usually has the ace. If he raises, it's a snap fold.
As played, you found out that you're behind, but it cost you way too many chips. By using standard bet sizes, you'd have lost about 45c in total. Here, you gave away $1.34, which is a crazy amount to lose if you're not even seeing a turn card.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Arty


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