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NL 25 Zoom: Shoving AQo oop vs midstacker BTN Steal standard or not?

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NL 25 Zoom: Shoving AQo oop vs midstacker BTN Steal standard or not? - Sun Jul 07, 2013, 05:37 AM
(#1)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
Hey,

140 hands on villain: vpip: 15 / PFR: 14 / Steal (total and BTN): 33 / 3bet: 4 / Fold to 3bet: 3 out of 3 times 4bet: 0 out of 3 times / Aggression factor: 4



My plan was to 3 bet and get it all in like I did. I thought AQo should do allright but probably not great vs his shoving range and AQo does not play to great oop postflop. I would have maybe just called with AQs due to the better postflop playability.

I put some ranges in equilab and even if villain shoves 88+ and AJ+ we are still a 43% equity dog and this villain does not seems like an aggressive short/midstacker Preflop so his range is likely not wider maybe even narrower than that one.
Of course we get some value from him folding out small pocket pairs and other speculative hands, but also a lot of dominated Aces and Queens fold.

So what do you prefer? Call or 3-bet and call a shove preflop, dont think any other option is viable.
 
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Sun Jul 07, 2013, 06:21 AM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I made the same play against a short stacker with AQ recently.

Was happy to get it in pre against him. A short stacker playing their strategy gets it in quite wide and relies on the fact we dont have the implied odds or the right hand to get it in with them.

I think AQ+ is my cut-off point. I'd likely fold AJ.

The short stacker in my hand showed up with K9 and I hit two pair on the flop.
 
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Sun Jul 07, 2013, 06:38 AM
(#3)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
yeah I think vs a standard short stacker who shoves wide, its a good line I took, but considering his stats, he does not look aggressive preflop, so in hindside I think I would have preferred to call.

I discussed it with my study group and we came to the conclusion that we should have a wide 3 bet bluffing range vs this villain, if we consider his 3bets and 4bets stats already halfway reliable and a small value shoving range containing of QQ+ and AK.
 
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Sun Jul 07, 2013, 12:42 PM
(#4)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Why are we 3betting? Against someone with those stats I'm looking to call and play post flop.
I'm only 3betting against someone who will call with worse.
 
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Sun Jul 07, 2013, 01:31 PM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Yeah those stats are of a player thats gonna be crushing your AQ most of if not all of the time especially if he thought you dont 3bet wide, I think you can stack off wider vs short stackers but not against those stats.

If you played that hand over and over again vs him i think you would be losing money.
 
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Tue Jul 09, 2013, 11:56 AM
(#6)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey

I wouldn't call this shove with AQ and I also think just flatting the open is a viable route to go. If we are three-betting, I would three-bet smaller, and fold to a four-bet. I think this hand is too strong to three-bet against someone who is 15/14 and has folded to 3/3 three-bets. They just don't like continuing with weak hands or a weak range and I wouldn't expect this to be a different situation. I think villain is going to have 88+AK here pretty often, often enough that we should fold.

When we flat call we can play against their whole range and that's definitely to our benefit. If we three-bet we are going to take it down preflop a lot, which means we should do it a lot, with worse hands than this that we are happy to fold to a four bet.

On three-bet size, I would make it smaller to give us a better price on our re-steal, to hope to encourage some flat calls with weaker hands, etc.
 
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Tue Jul 09, 2013, 01:12 PM
(#7)
folkstix's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 55
With stats: I'm folding to his 4 bet shove. Without stats: I'm still probably folding to his 4 bet shove unless I've seen something previously to make me think he'd spaz out with complete air.

I disagree with the comment that we shouldn't be 3 betting unless we expect to get called. We're out of position here and as someone who is not incredibly comfortable playing out of position I'm ok with taking this hand down pre-flop pretty much every time.
 

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