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$8.80 6 max Sunday Million Satellite with KK

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$8.80 6 max Sunday Million Satellite with KK - Sun Jul 07, 2013, 03:47 PM
(#1)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
My read on the opponent on this hand is that he is tight passive. He's folded to a lot of my opens HU. He limp/folded. He call/donked/folded. So if I had a value hand I would find it difficult to win any sort of decent pot.



In this hand I am dealt KK, I raise, get a call, and flop a set on a two tone board. Having flopped a monster and knowing villains tendency to fold I make the decision to slow play, I know the arguments against this, that I possibly lose out on value if he calls my bet and I also allow him the chance to outdraw me. I simply thought that if I bet he would insta fold like he did so many times.

I check flop and turn. The board pairs on the river giving me the absolute nuts aside from if he rivered quads of course. At this stage, I hope the river gave him a flush, raise, and we proceed to get it in.

Personally, I think the way I played the hands meant I got the maximum value from the hand, and I knew that if the river was a flush card other than an 8 that I would have to fold given my read that he is very tight passive. It would be a relatively small pot to lose.

We had a discussion about this and I feel that I managed to get ultimate value from the hand where others made the valid point that I allowed the villain opportunity to outdraw me.

I'd like thoughts on this hand. I dont usually play trickily, I usually bet/bet/bet with value hands, and usually get a lot of folds.

EDIT: Just been made aware that I limped pre. This was a misclick. I thought I HAD raised but it seems not.

Last edited by bhoylegend; Sun Jul 07, 2013 at 03:55 PM..
 
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Sun Jul 07, 2013, 05:38 PM
(#2)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
How often are you going to get that hand play like that when they have a flush draw, not very much if you ask me.If the draw never got there you make 100 and if the flush gets there and you dont make a boat your losing half of your stack atleast im betting the flop as its so wet.

This time it payed off to be passive but i dont think its a good idea playing it like that in future its almost like you sucked out because you let worse hands out draw you and got lucky that the flush draw made a boat. Im sure you would of folded an all in when he shipped the flush if you missed that boat but you would of been kicking yourself for slow playing.
 
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Sun Jul 07, 2013, 06:13 PM
(#3)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
How often are you going to get that hand play like that when they have a flush draw, not very much if you ask me.If the draw never got there you make 100 and if the flush gets there and you dont make a boat your losing half of your stack atleast im betting the flop as its so wet.

This time it payed off to be passive but i dont think its a good idea playing it like that in future its almost like you sucked out because you let worse hands out draw you and got lucky that the flush draw made a boat. Im sure you would of folded an all in when he shipped the flush if you missed that boat but you would of been kicking yourself for slow playing.
This is the kind of reply I am expecting to be honest because in general it is the kind of reply I would give too.

Like I said in the opening post, my usual line here is bet/bet/bet reassessing that based on villains actions, if he reraises at any point I have to consider folding as he has be so passive in the HU play. I should add that I mean on different boards to this one. I'm of course never folding top set on the board I got.

I genuinely think that given how passive the villain has been so far that even with a flush draw, and I didnt know that is what he had at the time of course, he could have folded and I wouldnt even have got what I thought would have been a cbet out of him.

I mean, you saw how passively he played the hand until he hit, and no stage did he try and take the pot. Naturally if he bets flop or turn I am taking a more aggressive action against him but he didnt do that.

I dont play heaps of heads up games but I honestly dont recall being HU against such a passive opponent in the recent past.
 
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Tue Jul 09, 2013, 01:06 AM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,819
(Super-Moderator)
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Hi bhoy!

Same thing for this one, I'll let Dave give his view, but here's how I'd go about it.

With KK or any other hand I'm playing, I'm raising to 3BB. In HU play, I try to never limp from the button, I'm either raising or folding. This way, I constantly keep the pressure on the opp.

I flop top set, but there is both a straight and a flush draw out there. When it checks to me, I'm going to make a 1/2 pot value bet here. The only way I'm going to check HU is if there isn't a card that can possibly beat me. This once again, is to keep the pressure on the opp.

The same thing on the turn. I'll make a 1/2 pot value bet to try to get value for my hand and to price out a draw.

When I hit a full house on the river and the opp leads into me, I'm going to raise whatever amount I think the opp will call.

By playing this way, yes, I will win more smaller pots, but I will not be taking anywhere near the chances of losing a big hand and this has worked wonders for my HU game over the last two years.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Jul 14, 2013, 07:22 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi bhoy,

Quote:
My read on the opponent on this hand is that he is tight passive. He's folded to a lot of my opens HU. He limp/folded. He call/donked/folded. So if I had a value hand I would find it difficult to win any sort of decent pot.
Yep, this is a welcomed problem. While it can be frustrating to not get value for big hands, just remember that this opponent type is THE best to play HU because we can slowly grind them down with very little risk short of a huge cooler or two happening. So while we find it hard to get value from big hands, we more than make up for it by winning small pot after small pot with valueless holdings (which is what we usually have).

My general strategy in this situation is to just play my big hands like I play all my garbage hands, sticking and stabbing and taking down small pots. When this villain type plays back, we (normally) just give up, since they don't do it often enough to matter. But if they happen to pick up something when we've got a monster, now we can stack them off.


So in this hand....

I would have min-raised pre, because that's what I would have been doing every button against this villain type.

I definitely favor betting for value before the river, if not on the flop then the turn for sure... if he's got any type of draw he'll call you, and he's going to call with 2nd pair as well, so extract 1 street at least from draws and 2 from Tx by betting the turn and river. As played, obviously raise the river and hope he has 8x+.

The argument that you got max value from the hand is results oriented... even if you somehow knew he had 2 hearts, actually the way you played it minimized value. You only got his stack because he made the hand. If the river is the 8s instead of a heart, he check-folds and you get no chips from a hand that would have called on the flop and turn to chase you. Hope that makes sense.


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