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25NL Zoom 6max, JJ utg against a squeeze

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25NL Zoom 6max, JJ utg against a squeeze - Tue Jul 09, 2013, 06:22 PM
(#1)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
There seem to be significant differences between 10NL and 25NL, especially when it comes to preflop play. At 25NL it is a lot more aggressive, 4bets and squeezes are much more common. Although it makes the game much more interesting it also puts me in some really awkward spots which I do not yet know how to play profitably. Like this one with JJ utg:



The squeezing villain is basically an unknown but seems to be a regular at the stakes (4 tables at 25NL 6max, 4 tables at 25NL FR). The villain OTB is playing 23/19/3bet:7.1, button VPIP:33 so far (219 hands) and CO is an unknown 4 tabler.

I do not yet know what range of hands to assign to squeezes in this positions but my assumption is that they are a bit wider and probably include a lot of marginally strong hands as well. Any help with ranging here would be highly appreciated!

I do not really want to fold JJ but I do not see how I can call and play profitably postflop either. Especially if one of the other villains comes along for the ride... If I flatted pre and someone overcalled I would have absolutely no idea as to what range of hands to assign to them. This would result in me being squeezed between a preflop squeezer and someone who as far as I know can play anything from 65s to TT this way. Long story short, I am not a good enough poker player to play for a call and be +EV. If anyone thinks this can be done in this concrete situation I am very eager to learn how.

That leaves fold/4bet. Which one do you think is preferable?

In the hand I decided to 4bet but am not very happy with my plan. The 4bet basically means I have to call off a shove since I have 36.2% equity against a range of AKo+,QQ+ (which again is my assumption about the potential shoving range and could well be only KK+?). Since the villain is an unknown to me I should be an unknown to him so he should give this 4bet a ton of credit. Maybe he would even fold QQ and AK to this play? If so I definitely see it as profitable (but in that case i should never be calling a shove obviously...), if he shoves with them and that is what most of his squeezing range consists of than I would probably be losing a lot of money in the long run... What it ended up with was just me praying that he folds which is a terrible situation to get into

Last edited by TommyGun369; Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 05:03 AM..
 
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Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:20 AM
(#2)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
You played it great.
Obviously at higher stakes regs are way more aggressive, and I guess that is a weird spot, but still JJ is too good to fold.
His range is definitely wider than on 10NL or below because his play has to work only something like 65% of the time to be profitable and sometimes he will have monsters there.
If he shoves you have to call, although that would be a marginal decision.

Last edited by GamblingProp; Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 01:31 AM..
 
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Wed Jul 10, 2013, 07:38 AM
(#3)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi Tommy, I would be more skeptical about a squeeze when its been opened from steal positions and called from BTN or SB. Or even if it's opened from MP and called from the CO and a 3bet comes from the BTN (as squeezing IP is way more profitable then OOP).
Against an UTG open however, I think people pay a fair amount of respect and are mostly 3betting for value. I kinda think you got lucky there to get a fold. Mostly you'll see QQ+,AK.

Would you be calling a bet if there were no callers and got 3bet from the blinds?
 
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Wed Jul 10, 2013, 08:11 AM
(#4)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
I like 4betting from utg a lot more than from steal positions. It seems like people realize that 3betting utg opens show a lot of strength so they actually do it a bit more liberally than one would expect (my impression so far) and when you 4bet them back they just fold so often when OOP. I am not saying that a 4bet was the right move but I do not necessarily agree with that his range for doing this is only value hands and rarely a bluff. Even if he had AK a lot and squeezed with that, would he really feel so great about shoving on me?

So you like a fold in this spot Geo?
 
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Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:02 AM
(#5)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Yea, I think I would've folded Tommy. I'd throw away AK and JJ in that spot.
 
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Thu Jul 11, 2013, 03:07 AM
(#6)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
4b > folding > calling in my opinion.

Of course once we 4b we have to call off, so as long as you are ok with this 4betting is good.

Well played.
 
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Thu Jul 11, 2013, 09:29 AM
(#7)
GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey Tommy

I would say that four-bet/fold is the worst possible line here, though it may be better than just folding.

Here is how I would rank them

1) calling
2) four-bet/calling
3) four-bet/folding
4) folding

with 1 & 2 exchangeable and 3 & 4 exchangeable.

Let's get to the why

I like calling because villains can come along behind with worse. They can add value to our hand. And we are going to play pretty precisely, or at least, we can, here postflop. It is hard for villain to c-bet into a field of four, it is easy for them to c-bet if you see the flop heads-up.

Basically, we have a hand that is quite strong, it is strong as a call and potentially marginal as a four-bet/call. But its too strong to four-bet/fold. I would leave that to hands that can't call.
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:11 PM
(#8)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
What is there for analysis in this hand?
Boring...........................
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 09:30 PM
(#9)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
Ok, I see you did not get it Sandtrap. I am sorry you feel offended for my comment in your hand analysis thread but it had nothing to do with you or the hand you posted. People post here a lot of hands and ask for analysis. Whatever the problem is, the community is here to help if anyone has any questions. I am just a bit sad that people only seem to be interested in hands from higher stakes like 25NL+. There is much less discussion about hands from 2NL or 5NL even though some of those spots are much more interesting than hands either one of us posted for analysis.

I, unfortunately do not have enough time to go through every single hand in here and try to give advice, ask questions or join the discussion in any other way but many other people do and they only like to analyse higher stake hands. Why? Is not just as important to make good decisions at 2NL as it is at 100NL? If every hand posted here got 20+ comments that would be something Or maybe I am completely wrong and it is because of you that people stop by to comment and analyse, not the stakes you play at. After all, you have been an active member of PSO for some time now.

P.S. What was the purpose of your post in this thread again? Next time send me a PM or comment on my time vault thread if you feel like need to tell me something.
 
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Sun Jul 14, 2013, 04:30 AM
(#10)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
So in a 3bet pot its a call because we can keep the other players in the pot and maybe spike a set but what if its heads up and you get 3bet by the BB when your UTG do you 4bet or call?
 
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Sun Jul 14, 2013, 07:39 AM
(#11)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
In a HU situation I think it is definitely a call pre We have position and a pretty strong hand so it is not so difficult to play postflop as it would be for me if it was multiway.

Only If you knew that the villain would get it in with TT and AQ it is good enough to 4bet call off but given the positions it seems super unlikely.
 

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