Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

How could I have known he was holding AKs

Old
Default
How could I have known he was holding AKs - Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:32 AM
(#1)
Mr. rayzor's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
hi,

In this scenario, the table was a bit loose, I had even won a few pots from the villain in question. He would call raises and c-bets then fold on the flop or turn. However in this instance .......well.... you decide, then tell me.....how could I have known that he was holding AKs.

 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:57 AM
(#2)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
Well you couldn't unless you are reading souls.
The call on the flop and turn indicates AJ+ and club flush draws.
While on the river the shove indicates AJ and a backdoor flush.
Now if the player was tight passive during the game you can narrow his range into AQss AKss on the river.
But as you are saying he was loose passive so it's very hard to put him on AK.

Last edited by GamblingProp; Wed Jul 10, 2013 at 01:34 AM..
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:28 AM
(#3)
folkstix's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 55
The dangers of opening AT off UTG I would say. Tighten up in EP. And fold to the river shove.

What were your intentions with your river bet sizing?
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:48 AM
(#4)
ForrestFive's Avatar
Since: May 2011
Posts: 2,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by folkstix View Post
The dangers of opening AT off UTG I would say. Tighten up in EP. And fold to the river shove.

What were your intentions with your river bet sizing?
To add here...

As a 6max cash player ATo is the bottom of my range to raise utg. Especially at the low micros but at full ring you may decide to open raise AT mid position?

Think about category 5 hands* mp and fold worse ep at the low micros. Only with good reads open worse.


* 55 66+ KJs KQo ATo ATs AJo+
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 07:58 AM
(#5)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
I would recommend folding pre-flop. AT is a one of the archetypal "trouble hands" that tends to win small pots and lose big ones. I'd only open it in middle-late position, as you don't have a positive expectation playing it early. (See my blog for more advice on opening ranges).

As played, you raise and get two callers, so you have to play the hand out of position, which is neither easy or profitable. The flop and turn are fairly standard. On the turn with top two, you usually have the best hand, but there are two flush draws and a couple of straight draws, so the board is pretty wet. The river completes a backdoor flush, but notice that it's perfectly possible for villain to have it, as the ace on the flop was in a different suit. A villain could have been calling with any that had top pair on the flop. The jack on the river also completes a a couple of straight draws, and improves AJ to a better two pairs.
My river line is quite straightforward: bet-fold, meaning I'd bet for value, and fold to a raise. A blocking bet of about 1/3 pot is good. It will get called by worse hands often enough to get some good value, yet means you lose the minimum if villain raises, because he's never raising as a bluff.

If you learn to use the bet-fold play when you are out of position, you'll get a much better winrate. Calling river raises will lead to you losing money, so stay disciplined and learn to fold.


Bracelet Winner
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 09:48 AM
(#6)
Mr. rayzor's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
Thanks for all the helpful advice guys. My mindset at the beginning of each flop, once i enter the pot, how can i take a stack? My first bet, about 3/4 of the pot was to protect from clubs and gather info: "maybe he has a bigger A, then y didn't he raise my bet here, or before the flop.......I'll slow down." Then lo and behold...Top Two.Thinking....."now I'm definitely leading....bet big protect my doubles from the 2 black draws." I did. ANOTHER CALL, no raise!...now what can he have? KQ,AQ, AJ, 2clubs. Spade on the river. Honestly guys, I really didn't think he would go all this distance with JQs,KQs,or worse unpainted spade 98s,97s,seeing only one spade came on the flop and he faced a big bet. What's more, no raise before or after the flop, couldn't be AKs....could it? So I bet the river...now he re-raises, I do a mental replay," call opener, call flop, call turn, re-raise river! He's bluffing. donk me calls off my stack."
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 10:27 AM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. rayzor View Post
What's more, no raise before or after the flop, couldn't be AKs....could it?
It is completely standard to play AKs in the way villain did. You opened UTG, so your range is strong. If villain raises, you fold all worse hands and only continue with better. Flatting is the best play.
The same applies post-flop. Why would villain raise the flop with TPTK? If he raises, then you fold all worse hands and only continue with better. Villain is in position, and he gets value buy calling your bets. He can't raise for value on any street but the river, because to raise for value means he needs you call with a worse hand. If you don't call raises with worse than AK, then it's a best to flat and keep the pot size under control. In short, you should only raise when you have very strong hands, and can get called by worse. That's what happens on the river. Villain can raise with the nut flush, and expect you to call with sets, two pairs and straights.


Bracelet Winner
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:00 PM
(#8)
folkstix's Avatar
Since: Nov 2010
Posts: 55
I'd say your two biggest mistakes were not folding UTG and calling off his river raise. Other than that the hand wasn't played all that bad flop and turn. River bet could be a bit bigger (I agree around 1/3 pot) but it's an auto muck if he raises. Try not to get into the mentality that the villain is trying to push you off your hand. Especially on a wet, wet, wet board. Think about both what you beat and what beats you. If there's a lot more that beats you than that you logically beat you're probably not going to like what you see when you call.

I also see you don't account for any low-mid pocket pairs in your ranging. That's something he could definite flat with on the button.
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 12:06 PM
(#9)
Mr. rayzor's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 41
Hey, thanks Arty. One sentence made it all clear. Villain is in position, and he gets value buy calling your bets. Recognizing that I was the aggressor, he allowed me to dig my own grave so to speak, cause ordinarily a re-raise pre or post-flop with my holdings, would cause me to fold.... most times, but he had been loose most of the evening. Didn't see it coming.... until it had left the station.
Anywho, Thanks to all who assisted on this hand and especially to you Arty, I was blind now I see.I see.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com