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Simplified 'OPEN LEAGUE' Strategy

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Simplified 'OPEN LEAGUE' Strategy - Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:11 AM
(#1)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Take as few 'BIG losses' as possible
Don't Bluff
Play AA & KK ONLY till U R in positive points.
Give careful attention to every hand but don't STALL***(using all your allotted time till u r timed out)
Get the League calculator here http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...-for-June-2013 and KNOW where U R at from the beginning of the tourney
You'll need to play at least 3 tournies a day and if only 3, know that many are playing 5-6 & ur at a great disadvantage
sleepy

ps: Did U know that EVERY ROUND 20+% of the players left will be 'history' ?
***OK, how do u justify using 6 seconds to fold 27 0ffsuit????
easily, if u take the time to go over the winning holdings of players in the 1st hour, u will find many, many winners with 27o, 39o 47o, Q6o etc so don't feel bad "considering" playing these starting cards & 'considering' takes time

Last edited by sleepyolman; Tue May 20, 2014 at 12:55 PM..
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 03:23 AM
(#2)
BEGR_Sasha's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
yeah, thats why i design the calculator for that, to help me to know when I am in the positive score, then I can do some strategy adjustment for the game, first I play OSL is in May, and the first 9 days(I use 9 days to design the calculator), I feel I play the game blind.


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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:58 PM
(#3)
Spartan642's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 74
Sleepy , thanks for that , now everyone knows ! One thing tho ,how can you know at the beginning of the tourney where you need to get to ,to get + points. ( I thought the scoring system also worked on the field strength )

Spartan
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:21 PM
(#4)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi Spartan,
1st, let me answer your question; 'Field Strength' doesn't affect your score very much.
If you go to link in the post, d/l the calculator at https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6ls...UyS1hDeHM/edit you will know in seconds EXACTLY where u stand, what your break-even score is, and what points are possible to get in that tourney. NOW, with that info, you can make intelligent decisions, always aware of how many points U can make or lose. I hope this helps & if you need help with the calculator, first go to the calculator thread http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...ulator-arrived & read what Sasha wrote (RTFM)
sleepy


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan642 View Post
Sleepy , thanks for that , now everyone knows ! One thing tho ,how can you know at the beginning of the tourney where you need to get to ,to get + points. ( I thought the scoring system also worked on the field strength )

Spartan
 
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Playing AA/KK to the strategy - Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:23 AM
(#5)
tammielad's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 8
How would you recommend playing AA/KK in the following (common) scenarios?

First ten minutes of the tourney..
1. You have AA in early position. 4x open raise, maniac #1 (who has bingoed up 3x stack already and has your starting 1500 well covered), maniac #2 calls. Most likely a 7:3 favourite against their combined bingo ranges and facing a 10 point loss if we get eliminated.

2. AdAs in the cutoff and 4x open to isolate (as if that's ever going) two early limpers, big blind calls, and the two limpers also.

Flop Jh9h7c. Action: check, check, you bet 3/4 pot, limper 1 and BB call.. how do we go from here, over a third of your stack is in the middle going into the turn 3 handed.

1 hour+ in..
3. After waiting for AA/KK you have 8BB now, 300 players to go before you hit 0 scoring spots.
Finally AA, but in early position, your table is manic/cally and 6 stacks behind have you covered with 35BB+ as they've got lucky in the bingo wars. Do you shove? Almost guaranteed to get 2 callers and be a 6:4 favourite, or fold and try to coast into the points/at least not lose any?

4. 25BB stack AA on the BB, CO min. raises, Button flats. Both have you covered, 200 players to go before scoring starts..
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:52 AM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
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Hi tammielad!

Here's the way I'd go about them...

1) I'm never 4x opening. I use 3x and lower to 2.5x at 100/200 blinds, then lower to 2. at 1k/2k.

2) see #1 - std raises and 4x is too much. In a league game, the ONLY time I'm pot-committed is if I have 1BB and am blinded in. If I have 1/3 or even 3/4 of my chips in.. I can always fold if I'm beat. The one and only thing that matters in these is to last as long as possible. Depending on the turn card, I may make a value bet, I may check/fold.

3) standard raise - depending on the blinds, I may open to 2.5BB, I may open to 2.2BB.. depends on the blind level. I'm not open-shoving.

4) standard raise to 3x the min-raise and will re-evaluate after the flop.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

P.S. I don't want to be all-in unless I'm sure that I'll have the best hand after all 5 cards on the board are shown. Just because I have the best hand after 2 cards doesn't mean I'll win the hand.


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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:30 PM
(#7)
tammielad's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 8
Thanks for your thoughts John. Having played in a few of these and had a think about how the scoring works I have adjusted my game toward survival. I'm just trying to get a grip on how much of an equity edge I should pass up in order to avoid elimination in a single hand. I need to sit down and do some equity math but think it could be right to pass on a hell of a lot pre +ve scoring.

Have I read you right in that you won't commit all your chips unless you have a lock?For example, KK on KhJh9c7h.., would you fold the turn to a check raise all in?

I can see weak-tight is the correct approach, but constantly find myself short-stacked as the +ve points point approaches as bet-folding is expensive!

Take your point about 4x opens early game, they achieve nothing. I already min/2. in the later rounds.

Not sure you read #4 right we are 8BB facing a min raise and call, 3x and we're already committed?

Last edited by tammielad; Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 04:33 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:37 PM
(#8)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi tammielad,
Quote:
Originally Posted by tammielad View Post
How would you recommend playing AA/KK in the following (common) scenarios?

All this is really contingent on where U R & what part of the month etc but if at the beginning of month or whereever U R and only going to lose 10 points, get UR AA in there & hope for the best
WTF, KK too. have some fun because it's not gonna be fun after U have played well & gotten to 2400-2500 and need to get to 1000 or 900 to break even. SO U C, until UR talking about losing so many points U can't easily recover them in the next tourney or so HAVE FUN. This is the open & U know u can get beat by 37o nearly every hand, Right ?
There is an absolute ton of time to catch the leaders or become leader in the 3rd & 4th week of every open. After u have gotten to the 2400-2500 level i have another valuable piece of advice:
TRY TO MAKE THE $$ BUBBLE
those 3 points are great & u know there will be no great loss there

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE
THE POWER OF BLINDING OUT

I believe what i have seen from the top players is enough to give U this advice; 1-2 points X 50 games is gonna really help
sleepy






First ten minutes of the tourney..
1. You have AA in early position. 4x open raise, maniac #1 (who has bingoed up 3x stack already and has your starting 1500 well covered), maniac #2 calls. Most likely a 7:3 favourite against their combined bingo ranges and facing a 10 point loss if we get eliminated.

2. AdAs in the cutoff and 4x open to isolate (as if that's ever going) two early limpers, big blind calls, and the two limpers also.

Flop Jh9h7c. Action: check, check, you bet 3/4 pot, limper 1 and BB call.. how do we go from here, over a third of your stack is in the middle going into the turn 3 handed.

1 hour+ in..
3. After waiting for AA/KK you have 8BB now, 300 players to go before you hit 0 scoring spots.
Finally AA, but in early position, your table is manic/cally and 6 stacks behind have you covered with 35BB+ as they've got lucky in the bingo wars. Do you shove? Almost guaranteed to get 2 callers and be a 6:4 favourite, or fold and try to coast into the points/at least not lose any?

4. 25BB stack AA on the BB, CO min. raises, Button flats. Both have you covered, 200 players to go before scoring starts..
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:26 PM
(#9)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tammielad View Post
Not sure you read #4 right we are 8BB facing a min raise and call, 3x and we're already committed?
With a min raise, a std raise is to 6BB, so we're NOT committed. The only time I'm ever committed in a league game is if I'm blinded in.

John (JWK240


Super-Moderator



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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:08 PM
(#10)
tammielad's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 8
OK thanks guys - I'm starting to get it.

A lot of "conventional" wisdom is to be ignored when playing in these.

Just put in a good 65 point (if I'm using the calculator right) performance by just refusing to play poker. Only played 2 hands post flop, letting myself blind down to 1.5BB..2.5BB a couple of times - getting lucky on my BB with forced all ins a couple of times - but would have made 12 points easily without the luck. The luck evened out on my last hand when I got it in with 66 4-way on the BB with 1.5BB to turn a boat and the river to double pair the board giving K3o a better boat (he really limped early position with that??. I reckon I could have survived the $bubble if that had held - ho hum.

I can see <10BB shoves aren't always a good idea, those 10BB can out last a lot of players with 5% of players crashing every minute.

"NEVER UNDERESTIMATE
THE POWER OF BLINDING OUT"

Amen!!
 
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Mon Aug 05, 2013, 01:46 PM
(#11)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
As GP(grampex) & I were talking, he simply stated that every round of blinds in (& i think this applies to all rounds after the 1st or 2nd)the OPEN is going to lose 20-25% of its' remaining players so u can use that data with your calculator to make your decisions whether to go for it or not
some tourneys are different & past #200 it also slows down again if i recall
keep track of the %ages so you can accurately predict where you can go
sleepy
....................

Last edited by sleepyolman; Wed Jan 01, 2014 at 08:28 PM..
 
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Mon Aug 05, 2013, 03:15 PM
(#12)
tammielad's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 8
I think 20-25% is a conservative estimate!

I noted the number of players left every minute in my last game in July (I know sad! But had to something while waiting for AA/KK )

37% gone in round 1, 35% in round 2. Round 3 onwards steadily falling from 26 to 20%. I died at 161st, but we were still losing 20%/orbit at that point.

I think this game had an especially high suicide rate, but the games I've seen since aren't far off.
 
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Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:09 PM
(#13)
JanisSoprano's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Sounds worse than playing DoNs.
I was considering playing in the leagues & just reading up on all the info. now (it's kinda staggering! .. need a tutor almost, LoL).

So... survival is key it seems.
So if I have noted players on the table are aware of this strategy (ones who are making calculations... maybe even using that calc.).. I should be agressing on them relentlessly... no? If they play back at me I can assuredly let my hand go.
 
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Tue Aug 13, 2013, 04:47 PM
(#14)
Las Monkey's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 2
BronzeStar
You can try, but someone will shove all in...and then another and then another. It's a risky strategy to try and steal a blind or 2. Best option is usually just to mark everyone who calls all in pre flop as a donk and then refuse to play against them. Let them donk each other out while you climb the board behind them. It doesn't matter if one of them gets lucky and wins the tourney because they won't do it twice and in the league rewards consistency far more than an outlier win. The trick is separating out whats good for your league standing versus whats good for your tourney standing, and then never valuing the latter over the former.
 
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Thu Aug 15, 2013, 09:08 PM
(#15)
GpersCreeper's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 3
BronzeStar
wish I'd read these posts a couple of hours ago, was doing well with $48k (blinds were 1.5k/3k so had abt 28 deducting ante) in the BB had AQs, known 'all-inner' with rags tried to steal and I called. I was way ahead since he had QTo,and the race began. I was good right up until the river when a T popped out and put me down to less than 1BB... crashed out @ 188th place. Learnt my lesson now though.
 
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Thu Aug 15, 2013, 10:54 PM
(#16)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
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Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:09 PM
(#17)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi Janis,
When u r in a situation 1 on 1 against a 'serious' Open player,
it's fine to try to steal with 2X or 3X bet if you have plenty of chips to lose...
Otherwise, take Las Monkeys' last sentence to heart

sleepy


Hi Las Monkey,
Great post
sleepy


Quote:
Originally Posted by JanisSoprano View Post
Sounds worse than playing DoNs.
I was considering playing in the leagues & just reading up on all the info. now (it's kinda staggering! .. need a tutor almost, LoL).

So... survival is key it seems.
So if I have noted players on the table are aware of this strategy (ones who are making calculations... maybe even using that calc.).. I should be agressing on them relentlessly... no? If they play back at me I can assuredly let my hand go.
 
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Sat Aug 17, 2013, 02:33 PM
(#18)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi GpersCreeper,
Don't worry; What's done is done & now U know u have a great place to learn & teach if u find something special.
Because I have time(usually) i do several things I think can help my game.
I have opened up several months worth of 'OPEN LEAGUE' lederboards, copied the top 50-100 players to a Word file, then used the search function to find the serious Open Leaguers & given them a special color so i can see where they are on tourney leaderboards & also know i can put pressure on them in certain spots as Janice talked about above.
Also, look at the leaders daily scores during the first week or so to see what u should be trying to achieve. See how few negative scores they have.
Also, remember, u will face the same players every other month as the good one are elevated to playing the 'Premier' every other month. Many who play @ the 20VPPs level find the "P" league to be a punishment as the prizes are virtually NOTHING compared to playing w 150 VPPS and are usually playing a V Loose Aggressive style in the premier league to either get a top 10 finish or go back to the "O" League where their 20 VPPs are worth something.
sleepy

Quote:
Originally Posted by GpersCreeper View Post
wish I'd read these posts a couple of hours ago, was doing well with $48k (blinds were 1.5k/3k so had abt 28 deducting ante) in the BB had AQs, known 'all-inner' with rags tried to steal and I called. I was way ahead since he had QTo,and the race began. I was good right up until the river when a T popped out and put me down to less than 1BB... crashed out @ 188th place. Learnt my lesson now though.
 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 03:30 AM
(#19)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi All, Well, after playing the Open 'Seriously' now for 3 months( May, July, & September ) & using what has been presented here, I have finished:
05-13 = 45th = $7.50
07-13 = 62nd = $7.50
09-13 = 32nd = $10.00
Last month i threw away over 130 points playing with AA or KK when i had huge stacks which would have taken me to # 200-400 so, unless i decide to get another 150VPPs to play the Premier again next month, I'll be trying for $50-$1,500 in November.
Good Luck
sleepy
 
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Sat Oct 05, 2013, 12:08 PM
(#20)
pokercolombo's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 57
BronzeStar
I just started playing and I found out that because I try to play tight I have a lot of time in between hands so what I have been doing is checking who is playing in the league and who is not and noticing what place are they on and what their previous finishes are. I color code the league players and that way if its betweet me and him I know if its a good player that he is not gonna play just any hand also I have been able to steal a lot of blinds this way.
 

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