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Can't move up

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Can't move up - Fri Jul 12, 2013, 09:58 AM
(#1)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
So I've been trying to beat 5nl for a second month now, but I can't seem to succeed. I tried everything, I gave my hands for a stat sleuth session, watched couple of 5nl videos. And yet I'm 9$ up over 95k hands.
I'm playing zoom short handed.
Any suggestions? Any videos that maybe helped you beat 5nl? Any book read?
thx
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 10:24 AM
(#2)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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I'm in the same spot with 10nl - breakeven.

Was just thinking to myself this morning though that being breakeven's not such a bad place to be - at least we can stay at the same level and work on getting better, instead of having to move down and rebuild our roll


I get most of my ideas for what to work on from going to Zoom Live Training classes (and watching the vids of the classes I've missed), reading the advice given in HA, and getting help from the people who have stopped by my Time Vault thread. And then a bit's come from looking over my own hands when doing review. Stuff like that?
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 11:00 AM
(#3)
ferdyr77's Avatar
Since: Dec 2011
Posts: 88
Indeed, as Trusty also mention take some time on you're hud and make use of the filters and see where u can possible adjust. I had a tough time beating 5NL because I had lot's of swings.
Changed a few things
- Being more aggro
- Quit hands with premium holdings facing a lot aggression.
- Steal way more in LP
- don't call 3bets often, but either 4bet/fold.
- label and note villains way more then I did before
- play 2 tables max (in the start) seems my winrate was way more on 2 tables then (1,3,4) yes indeed also more then 1 tabling. Possible I lack the action on 1 tabling and go play more spectulative hands.

Watching he tlive zoom trainings and forum is a very great resource to adjust you're game. I just quit 5NL and try to find my way to 10NL. But must admit I had also a few private coachings and those work best.


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ferdyr77; Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 11:02 AM..
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 12:06 PM
(#4)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
At first I started "adjusting" too, I went more agressive, made more resteals, but that did not work for me at all as I was losing big, things got better when I turned back to my 2nl pace, with ~6-8 resteal, and moderate agression.

I'd get a private coaching too if I had the money

I started off on 2 tables too, now I'm playing 4 as I was at 2nl, trying to get gold star by this month. Maybe this is a problem too.


TrustySam
Being break even is not bad in case this is not your only source of income. Where I live, playing 2nl 34 hours a week made me about an average salary per month, so I made a living out of it. Being break even is kinda sad for me.

Last edited by Praydk; Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 12:22 PM..
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 01:02 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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What did the Statistical Sleuth session turn up? Sounds like maybe your stats were in good shape?
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 02:20 PM
(#6)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
some hand reading issues, and a low resteal pctg
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 02:26 PM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Well im stuck at 2nl ive done more studying this month but ive done like 10k hands with a load of coolers , i looked through all of my hands and i cant see any major leaks. Ive spewed a coup[le of dollars here and there trying to get bad regs off of tptk but i can live with that.

What i would like to know though is it even possible for you to be having so many coolers for a month? Im break even but surely to be break even over a month you would think im missing a trick or two, my aces and kings however have made a loss overall thats how bad my all ins have been preflop. All of my winnings have came from non showdown winnings. Ive managed to get the red line going up im just hopinh i can see the green line go up as well soon because i want to get moving up the stakes now.
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 02:54 PM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praydk View Post
some hand reading issues

Just the other day, I was noting that a big part of 5nl seems to be learning to deal with tricky monster versus monster hands - like learning to spot the signs that while both hands are strong, ours might be behind?

Click to show hidden text



Example of a Tricky Monster versus Monster Hand

Click to show hidden text



And then to get practice with that, I'd collect hands from Live Training and Hand Analysis, and make little notes, and keep track of my progress in dealing with similar situations?


Example of a Hand I Clipped from Live Training

Click to show hidden text



Example of a Hand I Bookmarked from Hand Analysis

Click to show hidden text



Like, I spent a lot of time making pretty detailed notes as guides. But I felt like it was time well spent. I think it helped a lot!!

Last edited by TrustySam; Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 03:01 PM..
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 03:02 PM
(#9)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Well im stuck at 2nl ive done more studying this month but ive done like 10k hands with a load of coolers , i looked through all of my hands and i cant see any major leaks. Ive spewed a coup[le of dollars here and there trying to get bad regs off of tptk but i can live with that.

What i would like to know though is it even possible for you to be having so many coolers for a month? Im break even but surely to be break even over a month you would think im missing a trick or two, my aces and kings however have made a loss overall thats how bad my all ins have been preflop. All of my winnings have came from non showdown winnings. Ive managed to get the red line going up im just hopinh i can see the green line go up as well soon because i want to get moving up the stakes now.
Hang in there Mike!! GL GL!!
 
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Fri Jul 12, 2013, 04:49 PM
(#10)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praydk View Post
I'm playing zoom short handed.
Any suggestions? Any videos that maybe helped you beat 5nl? Any book read?
I'd play on regular tables instead of Zoom. Players stack off much lighter on regular tables in my experience, and you can table select so you have nits on your left and loose players on your right, which makes the game much easier.
Going to PSO live training sessions is my main advice, but the book I'd most recommend is "Building a Bankroll (Full Ring edition)" by Pawel 'Verneer' Nazarewicz. Just about everything in the book also applies to 6-max, and it's laid out in a very straightforward manner.
You probably just need to refresh your fundamental skills, so if you haven't already seen it, take a look at my blog series on how to beat full ring 2NL. (It's just as relevant to 6-max too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Well im stuck at 2nl ive done more studying this month but ive done like 10k hands with a load of coolers , i looked through all of my hands and i cant see any major leaks. Ive spewed a coup[le of dollars here and there trying to get bad regs off of tptk but i can live with that.
What i would like to know though is it even possible for you to be having so many coolers for a month?
Yes. I've said it before and I'll say it again, but I had a 35,000 hand break-even stretch of 2NL, when my long-term winrate was closer to 12bb/100. Coolerville is not a nice place to visit if you're on the wrong side of the tracks, but everyone (except maybe Sandtrap ) makes an unplanned and over-extended stay there at some point. Just grit your teeth and keep grinding, or take a break or learn a different game if the bad run is getting you down.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 06:33 AM
(#11)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Yeah but surely pros that make a ton of money at poker dont go on downswings of break even for a month? I was looking at that bell curve thing and i dont know if im using it correctly but my sets and straights for last month was in the unlucky end.

I then looked for the whole 100k hands and my sets and flushes were in normal and my straights were on the unlucky side, i would show the pic if i didnt lose all my hands.

I would expect in live games you could go a downswing for a long time because of not playing as many hands but when your zooming 1000s of hands how can your luck be so bad. You should of seen my graph the red line was making me break even and the green line was going down like my red line used to.
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 09:42 AM
(#12)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
idk about pros but I just lost 3 stacks over like 3 minutes with premiums in 3bet pots versus small pockets that caught sets.
Back to 2nl.. very sad as I expect this to be a vicious circle, 2nl win - try to adapt to 5nl - lose - 2nl..
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 09:52 AM
(#13)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
Well if being more aggressive didn't do the trick, I have the solution...
Move to tournaments!
You can move up in stakes after a single session.
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:49 PM
(#14)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Yeah but surely pros that make a ton of money at poker dont go on downswings of break even for a month?
Get Verneer's "Building a Bankroll" book. The first chapter is all about variance. He shows vinivici's insane graph, in which he made $155,000 in 2.5 million hands. The graph looks pretty straight, and when it was first posted on 2+2, the thread title was an ironic "Brag: No variance". But during the course of the 2.5 million hands in which vinivici was crushing 50NL and 100NL, he had a 20 buy-in downswing and a breakeven period of 100,000 hands.
Some players go a whole year without making money. One month of bad beats is nothing.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:15 PM
(#15)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
Lol what's the point of being a poker pro if you make no money over a year, waiting couple of years for the variance to even you up? Might as well get a job.

At first the name seemed familiar, I read moving through unl by him.
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:24 PM
(#16)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
Yeah but surely pros that make a ton of money at poker dont go on downswings of break even for a month?
month.. they'll go thru year long downswings, just like anyone else... look at Daniel on high stakes poker... all year long thru a variance run.

Variance runs of 4-8 months are commonplace and why bankroll management is so important.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Mon Jul 15, 2013, 07:47 AM
(#17)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
Thx Arty I indeed needed a refresh, especially some cases of cbeting


---
Edit:

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...585_899D695741

This is how easy 2nl players stack off, I don't think I saw this kind of calls at 5nl. Some said there's no big difference between 2nl and 5nl, I kind of tend to disagree.

Last edited by Praydk; Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 03:03 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 15, 2013, 07:50 AM
(#18)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
Interesting hands, thinking about thay AQ hand of yours, you shoulnt have slowplayed it imho.
 
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Mon Jul 15, 2013, 08:10 AM
(#19)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praydk View Post
Interesting hands, thinking about thay AQ hand of yours, you shoulnt have slowplayed it imho.
My Internet got better just as I had to stop trying to play - sigh ...

Anyways ... were you referring to my AQo? Even though I didn't include the villain's HUD stats, given the context with which I posted the hand ... like I didn't bet because I didn't think I was good.
 
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Mon Jul 15, 2013, 12:19 PM
(#20)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
yes, AQo vs TT

he could only call there with AK or why would you think you were not good?

As for me, I beat 2nl easily, I realised that I am more relaxed at 2nl and I am able to play solid and calculate every action, not like in the 5nl case.
I guess I should get a bankroll that won't be shaky to be as solid at 5nl.
 

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