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Payout-Structures in MTTSNGs

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Payout-Structures in MTTSNGs - Sat Jul 13, 2013, 07:59 PM
(#1)
davidfranses's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 66
An important part of game selection imho, and one often overlooked is the payout-structure.

As I've been staked to play some $1 90mans Turbo, and I was relatively new to that particular "breed" (I've tons of experience in the 180s, and have grown my BR from 0 to +- 100 @ the 360s) , first thing i looked up where the blind structure.

The blind-structure is exactly what I was used to from the 180s, so no surprises there, but the pay-outs where new to me ;

Not only have they change the payout structure of the 180s i was used to, but the structures of the 90s VS the 180s are different :

- A very slightly % less of the field is paid (13/90 VS 27/180)

- The Payout's are top heavy, but way less so than the 180s : e.g :

90 :

* 1st Place = 27.55%
* "Half-ITM" (by lack of a better word) : 7th = 4%
* Just ITM : 13th : 2.25%

180 :

*1st Place : 30%
* Half-ITM : 0.95%
* Just ITM : 0.65%

----

Notice how a minicash is significantly better in a 90 than a 180 , Granted, they're less players to be paid, but a 90 minicash is 1,84BIs while only 1,064BIs in a 360.

This made me wonder (aha w're getting to the point!) :

- Will this affect bubble play ? I.e will there be even more players in a 90 being ultra-nitty around the bubble to make it ITM , and thus will there be even more ab-usable players ?

- Whilst I always go for a win in a MTTSNG, are there situations i might consider "only mincashing" ?

- With pay-jumps much much quicker in succession in 90s, could it affect my decision-making (multi-way pots and whatnot...) in certain spots ?

- Lastly , I noticed the "add" above the tourneylobby of a 90, proudly displaying "This SNG uses our 20%-payout structure" , what does this refer to? If so is there any documentation from Pokerstars about their different structures ?
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 09:33 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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It absolutely affects bubble play. Personally, before black friday (since I'm in the US, I used to pick the 20% payout tourneys over the 15% tourneys, over the 10% tourneys). Yes in the lower ones, first paid out more, but I could make a higher ROI playing in the higher %'s.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 09:57 PM
(#3)
davidfranses's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
It absolutely affects bubble play. Personally, before black friday (since I'm in the US, I used to pick the 20% payout tourneys over the 15% tourneys, over the 10% tourneys). Yes in the lower ones, first paid out more, but I could make a higher ROI playing in the higher %'s.

John (JWK24)

Could you be as kind as to elaborate ?

You onlyansweredone of the 6 questions, and with just "yes" it's kinda hard for me to know what dynamics i should adjust to ^^
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 09:59 PM
(#4)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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It depends on the players in it. Some will play tigher, so you can exploit them more. Some will play looser, so you need to tighten up... as with most things in poker... it depends.

John (JWK24)


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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 10:21 PM
(#5)
davidfranses's Avatar
Since: Sep 2010
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
It depends on the players in it. Some will play tigher, so you can exploit them more. Some will play looser, so you need to tighten up... as with most things in poker... it depends.

John (JWK24)
Obviously[...] . How to 'abuse' the bubble will depend on the situation.


So, let me rephrase "will it affect bubble-play", and break it down :

- Can I expect it to be longer with more people concerned about the bubble ? (will there even be more players concerned?)

- Can I expect other to "catch-on" on this effect ?

- Are there any adjustment i need to make (different from my "standard" 180/360 game?)

And lets not forget all my other Q's :



- Whilst I always go for a win in a MTTSNG, are there situations i might consider "only mincashing" ?

- With pay-jumps much much quicker in succession in 90s, could it affect my decision-making (multi-way pots and whatnot...) in certain spots ?

- Lastly , I noticed the "add" above the tourneylobby of a 90, proudly displaying "This SNG uses our 20%-payout structure" , what does this refer to? If so is there any documentation from Pokerstars about their different structures ?


Read more: PokerSchoolOnline Forum - Reply to Topic http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...#ixzz2YyyusPCx
 
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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 11:19 PM
(#6)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
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Hey David!

1) will be the same as a std bubble. Could just be later in the tourney.

2) opps won't be that smart.

3) play will be the same as any other mtt. 180/360's may have a bit more maniac play, but that should be the only difference.

4) mincashing.. only if it's a shot game outside of your 100 buy-in bankroll.

5) payjumps.... how much does it matter to your bankroll???? that's the ?

6) the 20% means 20% of the field gets paid (those pay the most and were the ones I played the most). getting ITM more often in those helped to raise my ROI. Some pay 20%, some pay 15%, some pay 10%.

John (JWK24)


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Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:24 AM
(#7)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I think if you want to have a high roi in those you should forget mincashing and go for top3.
Bubble factor is not big on those tournaments but I think there are some recreational players who will tighten up a lot, though generally regs don't focus on mincash.
My suggestion is to play looser on the bubble and tighter on the final table.
 

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