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2NL 6-max Zoom AQs

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2NL 6-max Zoom AQs - Mon Jul 15, 2013, 06:05 PM
(#1)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hi, teh villain si unkown.
The river is a fold right ? even with some goot pot odds.


Thnaks
 
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Mon Jul 15, 2013, 06:25 PM
(#2)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
Yeah good fold definitely, we are only beating pure bluffs and I don't believe any thinking player bluffs on that spot.
 
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Tue Jul 16, 2013, 12:12 AM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
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Hi fp,

Yes I think the river is a fold too, just looks very unlikely to be a bluff here.

Not sure I'm a big fan of your line to 3b pre and barrel flop and turn either tbh, it seems pretty high variance with no reads on the villain... I doubt we are getting more than 2 streets of value from worse hands here so you might consider checking back the turn planning to call a river bet on a non-diamond river, or bet for value yourself if checked to (and villain will believe we have AK often enough that they'll take a hand like 88, which would have just folded to your turn barrel, and pay us off now). This line also may save us from non-nut flushes which are surely check-raising us on the turn... if a river diamond comes off they can't really value bet any more and lose a street of value from us.


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Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:54 AM
(#4)
fp_boss77's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 490
Hi Dave, so you think I should've just flat with the AQs there ?
I thought on maybe checking back the turn, but I remembered what Garteh said on one of his classes 'Go for value even if the board gets a scary, I rather bet and fold to a raise than check and guess'.
This is 2NL, and villain is never folding good Diamonds, a Jack and ceertainly never a queen (even when a flush may have got there). That's jsut what wnet through my head at teh moment, it may not be correct. Thnaks
 
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Tue Jul 16, 2013, 03:23 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fp_boss77 View Post
Hi Dave, so you think I should've just flat with the AQs there ?
I thought on maybe checking back the turn, but I remembered what Garteh said on one of his classes 'Go for value even if the board gets a scary, I rather bet and fold to a raise than check and guess'.
This is 2NL, and villain is never folding good Diamonds, a Jack and ceertainly never a queen (even when a flush may have got there). That's jsut what wnet through my head at teh moment, it may not be correct. Thnaks
I am sometimes flatting, sometimes 3-betting pre. It depends on the villain reads and players to act behind me as well. Here with no reads at all on anyone, I prefer to flat AQs and play it in position vs. the raiser with a higher stack to pot ratio. If others come along that's ok because our call may induce overcalls from dominated aces, Q's, and spades (and we should get someone's stack if we overflush them) so AQs plays well multi-way here.

As for betting or checking the turn, part of the key is how many streets of value we can reasonably expect to get and how to best go about getting them. When our best expectation is 2 streets, those don't have to always be the flop and turn... they can be the flop and river or turn and river sometimes too. I think in the case of this hand we are getting 2 streets the least often by betting flop and turn, because the worse hands in his range will often fold to the turn barrel, but give us a 2nd street on the river if (by checking back) we plant that seed of doubt that we have AK or a weak pair here.

I don't disagree at all with what Gareth said in his class, but I think it's much more applicable to being out of position (perhaps in the class he was referring to an OOP spot?)... if we check and they bet, now we have to guess. Notice in this hand we are in position so if we check they can not bet the turn, the betting round goes away, and we are not forced to guess at all on the river (note I've laid out my plan for the river in my first reply).

If we were out of position we end up guessing vs. a bet, because if we call it we will then have to play the river out of position as well, and can potentially face a much larger river bet.. with a hand strength that's not totally clear if we're good or not = guessing.


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Tue Jul 16, 2013, 03:31 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Notice in this hand we are in position so if we check they can not bet the turn, the betting round goes away, and we are not forced to guess at all on the river (note I've laid out my plan for the river in my first reply).
Edit: We *might* still have some guesswork once in a while... like if villain bets a blank river (which we had planned to call) but instead of betting a conventional amount they overbet shove all in. This is very rare though, and it's not a troubling problem to fold to this action as it's likely a strong hand trying to make up for lost value from their missed check/raise (so still not much guessing really I suppose).


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