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Hit and running - good etiquette?

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Hit and running - good etiquette? - Sat Jul 20, 2013, 09:21 AM
(#1)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
By hit and running I mean, you join a table and win 1 big hand and then move on to another table and "protect" that win.

I've found myself doing it more and more whether the table is fish filled or not. I sat at 2 tables earlier for 5 minutes in 25c/50c limit and scooped $7 from one and $2 the other. Should I stick around and hope for more?

On another site I play (in Limit) I find the player pool very small and I can't do this. I find the same reg's (regulars, players who play OK and multi table) over and over. On Stars there are many reg's but I don't always come across the same players.

How do you feel when it happens to you?

Is this a good strategy?


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Sat Jul 20, 2013, 11:47 AM
(#2)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Personally I try to set a limit of where I want to be when I leave a table. I usally have it at + 1/2 a buy in.however for me this is fish defendant, if I at a very loose table (playing lower stakes than you.) I will hang around.

The reason for me is a discipline one when i win i tend to get over confidant and play looser / try to make more plays which is not what won me the money in the first place so better to switch tables and start again.

Grade b


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Sat Jul 20, 2013, 12:28 PM
(#3)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
25c/50c Limit is totally different from NL but my win rate keeps shining and comparable to NL this way. I'd compare my stakes to $5NL.

I do lose on many a table and I usually stick around until I break even or lessen my losses but my overall stats are good enough. My example above was an extreme but I rarely make a big loss and usually a few BB profit.

Just wondering will my stats catch up with me at some stage by hit and running? ie. will the regs get a read on me?

How do you feel when it happens to you?


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Sat Jul 20, 2013, 12:50 PM
(#4)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
It depends!!

That's why I play Zoom, it doesn't show
I will always leave with > 50% and open up a new table
You can't really track the stack of a player, especially if they're playing 3-4 tables

But if you're playing regular tables, players will know and they will take note of it. But really, who cares, it's your game, your money, you do what ever you want. If I was playing regular tables, I would leave after doubling up.

GL
 
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Sat Jul 20, 2013, 12:59 PM
(#5)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
It depends!!

That's why I play Zoom, it doesn't show
I will always leave with > 50% and open up a new table
You can't really track the stack of a player, especially if they're playing 3-4 tables

But if you're playing regular tables, players will know and they will take note of it. But really, who cares, it's your game, your money, you do what ever you want. If I was playing regular tables, I would leave after doubling up.

GL
I'm really talking about a few BBs.

I know Limit is vastly different but similar in many ways to NL but I regularly start 6 and try and leave with a profit from all 6. It doesn't always happen but the tables I leave first are tables I have to most profit on. If I make a loss then I'll chase the loss (bad I know) but I'll play it at least until I get a buy in or 2 back.

I do hit and run - as I said I'd 2 open earlier and hit and ran after I was in profit on both tables.

I used to think a hit and runner was a short stacker but I never short stack to maximise my chips and always auto top up.

As you queried Sandtrap, it does work for me but am I missing value by not sticking around?


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Last edited by Ovalman; Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 01:01 PM.. Reason: changed buy in's to BBs
 
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Sat Jul 20, 2013, 01:59 PM
(#6)
EdinFreeMan's Avatar
Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,540
I have no problem - etiquette wise - with doing this myself or with others doing it. But I don't find it particularly profitable. I would rather stay at a table where I feel I have an edge - and if a 'hit and run' merchant shows up I am happy to take them on on my own terms.

I suppose there are good hit and runners and bad ones - so it might be feasible to play that style profitably - but I suspect it is hard to do.

If you mean sitting and being super aggressive for a few hands and stealing blinds and taking down pots uncontested or with post-flop aggression - that might work a few hands until every one realises you are super-lag. Then yes you could repeat that at the next table. Don't see it working long term.

Ed


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Sun Jul 21, 2013, 10:09 AM
(#7)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
Personally I do get a little annoyed when someone hit and runs against me but I don't really have a problem with it. Everyone is allowed to play their own way, it's just sometimes frustrating when you know it would be very easy to win the money back from certain villains (I don't believe you fall into this category however). I would never do it myself I have to say. If I'm at a table where I'm winning then I see more reasons to stay than leave (unless the fish leave first). I think the only reasons to leave a table are if you know you're being consistently outplayed or if you're not feeling on top of your game for one reason or another, tiredness etc. I don't like to set limits or goals to leave at. Also you only risk what you put in the middle. Just because you have a bigger stack doesn't mean you have to play it. So unless there are other large effective stacks on the table that you think are capable of outplaying you I don't see the point in leaving.

So in short strategy wise, not sure it's correct. Etiquette wise, I think it's fine.



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Sun Jul 21, 2013, 01:51 PM
(#8)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
I personally dont have a massive problem with it unless the person hits and runs and then goes to another table. That's not right in my personal opinion as they are just doing it because they cant handle playing with a big stack. What other reason to do it?

I think stars are going to be bringing something in though that will mean people will find this harder and harder to do except in Zoom where it isnt a problem anyway because you are unlikely to be dealt into hand with the same person too many times anyway.
 
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Sun Jul 21, 2013, 02:04 PM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
I'm not sure if it's good or bad etiquette, but banking the winnings is something I recommend beginners do when trying to grow a bankroll. Playing deep alters the dynamic and can lead to spew.
If someone leaves the table after winning my stack, I barely notice, let alone care. I'm concerned with building my bankroll, so if a table is worth staying on, I stay. If it's not, I look elsewhere.


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Tue Jul 23, 2013, 08:21 PM
(#10)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
I personally dont have a massive problem with it unless the person hits and runs and then goes to another table. That's not right in my personal opinion as they are just doing it because they cant handle playing with a big stack. What other reason to do it?

I think stars are going to be bringing something in though that will mean people will find this harder and harder to do except in Zoom where it isnt a problem anyway because you are unlikely to be dealt into hand with the same person too many times anyway.
Maybe rather than not being able to handle a big stack they wish to protect their winnings, something which is easy online that live. for me personally it is that i can't handle deep stack play so why would i stay and play a game I'm no good at when their are 50 other tables at my stake to try.

I disagree with the Zoom part for me that's the one where i question if I should do it as I am removing money from my table(set of), where as at normal speed if I sit down with a player from the old table they have chosen to be there.


Question if you more tables in a live casino can you take money off the table?
what if you are moving up stakes?

or down stakes?

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

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Last edited by Grade b; Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 08:39 PM.. Reason: added a thought
 
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Tue Jul 23, 2013, 09:26 PM
(#11)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
Question if you more tables in a live casino can you take money off the table?
what if you are moving up stakes?

or down stakes?

Grade b
Live poker, as is often the case, has different rules, different places. So some places wont let you "go south" if you are moving straight from one table to another. Other places only let you sit down at the new table with the max buy in. Quite a lot of places if you change tables with a big stack they only let you match the largest stack at the new table.
In live poker it is definitely bad etiquette to try and pocket winnings and return to the same or new table with a smaller buy in. Expect to catch some grief from the players you have been winning from if you do that (unless it is one of the few casinos that make you drop your stack when switching tables).

Back to online, it is interesting that there is a lot of pressure for Stars to sort out shortstackers who double up and then leave - seen as a bad thing, but this is not the case for normstackers who double up and leave because they are not comfy with 200bb behind ...
 
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Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:55 AM
(#12)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
Maybe rather than not being able to handle a big stack they wish to protect their winnings, something which is easy online that live. for me personally it is that i can't handle deep stack play so why would i stay and play a game I'm no good at when their are 50 other tables at my stake to try.

I disagree with the Zoom part for me that's the one where i question if I should do it as I am removing money from my table(set of), where as at normal speed if I sit down with a player from the old table they have chosen to be there.


Question if you more tables in a live casino can you take money off the table?
what if you are moving up stakes?

or down stakes?

Grade b
The 'protect winnings' argument really is a lot of crap to me. If someone is down a few buy-ins across tables but doubles up and runs away on another table they are not protecting winnings. They are acknowledging they don't have the skills to manage a deep stack and are scared of having to play against another deep stacked opponent.

Like I mentioned in my original post, I think stars have some ideas on hown to stop this being such a problem, I'd like to see them implement the plans.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=22

Last edited by bhoylegend; Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 02:03 AM.. Reason: Adding link
 
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Wed Jul 24, 2013, 10:39 AM
(#13)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoylegend View Post
The 'protect winnings' argument really is a lot of crap to me. If someone is down a few buy-ins across tables but doubles up and runs away on another table they are not protecting winnings. They are acknowledging they don't have the skills to manage a deep stack and are scared of having to play against another deep stacked opponent.

Like I mentioned in my original post, I think stars have some ideas on hown to stop this being such a problem, I'd like to see them implement the plans.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=22

LOL LOL
I've been protecting my money for almost 2 years and it works and to say I'm scared of playing bigger stack, I play them every hand. Probably because of the difference in playing regular tables and Zoom.

Some people are just jealous of others..........LOL

Walking away from a table with $50 profit after 5 hands or walking away from a table with $50 after 500 hands, there's no difference

Going back to a new table after 2 minutes or going back to a new table after 2 hours, they are both new sessions, or even going back to a new table the next day, there's no difference.

If someone want's to leave because of big stacks, regulars, not a full table, it's their choice, just like picking the right table to sit at.

Usually, people who complain, are people who get tilted when someone wins a hand and leaves as they can't seem to win at this game...

We are done here...........
 
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Wed Jul 24, 2013, 11:42 AM
(#14)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandtrap777 View Post
LOL LOL
I've been protecting my money for almost 2 years and it works and to say I'm scared of playing bigger stack, I play them every hand. Probably because of the difference in playing regular tables and Zoom.

Some people are just jealous of others..........LOL

Walking away from a table with $50 profit after 5 hands or walking away from a table with $50 after 500 hands, there's no difference

Going back to a new table after 2 minutes or going back to a new table after 2 hours, they are both new sessions, or even going back to a new table the next day, there's no difference.

If someone want's to leave because of big stacks, regulars, not a full table, it's their choice, just like picking the right table to sit at.

Usually, people who complain, are people who get tilted when someone wins a hand and leaves as they can't seem to win at this game...

We are done here...........
Jealous of others?

That doesn't make sense sandtrap. By the way though, I'm not aware of anyone ever ratholing me, so if your goading is intended to annoy me then it is entirely misplaced.

As for the jealous part, please elaborate on that, what is it that me or anyone who doesn't leave a table after doubling up is jealous of? We've doubled up, in many cases winning a bigger pot than those who constantly run away have precisely because we kept all money won on the table and stacked another player with more than 100bb. So yeah, the jealousy is strong, I wish I imposed limits on how much I can win too.

I'm beating the game right now, so are you, but I don't hold the same thoughts of supremecy that pour through your posts at times. So continue to think that your opinion is the only correct one. I'm getting used to hearing your opinions and the way they are put across.

'and to say I'm scared of playing bigger stack, I play them every hand.'

Just editing to add this musing - so you play them 150-250bb deep? I thought you ratholed? Assuming you do indeed rathole then you are playing them roughly 100-125bb deep.

You are an excellent player - so why not play them with a 200bb stack? You arent scared of them, your as good if not better, over the long run surely you will take more money off them than they will off you?

Now we are done.

Last edited by bhoylegend; Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 12:25 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 24, 2013, 02:13 PM
(#15)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
Deciding whether or not to play deep stacked is, I think, different to hit and running. And I certainly don't see a problem with leaving the table if you get very deep if you're not comfortable playing that deep. Like most things it has it's pros and cons. Felix talks a little about it in his latest 'Grinding it up' video. Check it out if you like.




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Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:00 PM
(#16)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
TY for the video Chris,

was a good one. I don't mind that people know I'm not good at playing 200 bb deep against good players, against maniacs its a different matter. mind you i will leave the table if the overall VPIP drops below 20% i'm sure someone out there will argue that's because i don't what to change my stlye of play and play LAG, and they are right.

Those of us that do quit tables do you quit straight away or click the wait for the BB button?

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Jul 26, 2013, 04:24 PM
(#17)
ImpactPoint's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 213
I play a very simular way in PLO ovalman, ive always bought in for 40bb, when i double up i join another table, its not the fact that i cant play deep PLO - its just something ive always done, i no in alot of cases im leaving a profitable game, but in my recent plo challenge its worked well.

In the end the beauty of online poker is that you can do this, bad ettiguette or not the vast majority of players wont care.

Is it a good idea in limit games wich you play? id tend to think it wouldnt be that profitable to leave a juicy table, because the nature of limit holdem your not in theory playing deepstack poker because the betting rounds are limited,but in plo/nl it probaly would make sence to hit and run.
 

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