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Sunday Million 23BB

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Sunday Million 23BB - Sun Jul 21, 2013, 07:47 PM
(#1)
PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
Bubble just burse and looking for a huge pot and looks like a good opportunity to double up.



Is it a good shove?
 
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Sun Jul 21, 2013, 08:55 PM
(#2)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Leaning towards just call there. He is UTG so range may be a little stronger, he has to call off versus the two micro stacks and I would expect is only opening something that he is happy calling off to a BB shove. These factors mean he is likely a little tighter than other times. Much of the value in a 20bb shove comes from getting a fold and picking up the pot and I think this is happening less often here if he has tightened up his opening range with the shorties still to act. Other major point is do you think he is calling with AJ or KQs? I doubt it, in which case I am leaning towards calling.

Would be useful to know how he is playing as neither calling or shoving feels ideal, stats/reads on the villain would help me decide between call/shove.
 
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Mon Jul 22, 2013, 08:08 AM
(#3)
PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
Leaning towards just call there. He is UTG so range may be a little stronger, he has to call off versus the two micro stacks and I would expect is only opening something that he is happy calling off to a BB shove. These factors mean he is likely a little tighter than other times. Much of the value in a 20bb shove comes from getting a fold and picking up the pot and I think this is happening less often here if he has tightened up his opening range with the shorties still to act. Other major point is do you think he is calling with AJ or KQs? I doubt it, in which case I am leaning towards calling.

Would be useful to know how he is playing as neither calling or shoving feels ideal, stats/reads on the villain would help me decide between call/shove.
I agree with you Sir, it's the more conservative approach.

But what running on my mind that moment is gonna gamble with any Big A as i'm running good with big Aces

I don't used any tracking software.

Guess i push my luck too much.

Thanks Sir.

PH
.
 
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Mon Jul 22, 2013, 06:21 PM
(#4)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Without any stats it's bad shove for me. and call is not an option for me with just 23 BBs. of course because it's UTG raise , I would shove against MP raise.

Last edited by Shichi-77; Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 06:26 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 22, 2013, 09:18 PM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,510
(Head Trainer)
Hi PH,

I agree with the others, I think it's a bad shove because you gave no reads... simply shoving 23bb over a 2-x raise because you have a big ace is never a good play. It depends on the villains range, which depends on reads and how he's playing.

Here the bubble has just burst, and the short stacks tend to blast it in fast once ITM to try for a quick double up... he probably knows this (he's likely to get action from shorties) and is opening UTG anyway so like Profess, I would rate his range to be really strong here. It might include AJ or ATs but I doubt he his calling off to a 23bb shove from us with those hands. He will definitely call us with AK and TT+ however, so we end up taking it down pre the few times we catch him at the very bottom of his opening range and getting our stack in bad the rest of the time.


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Tue Jul 23, 2013, 10:50 AM
(#6)
PINOY_HITMAN's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,717
Thanks Coach Dave and everyone.

Guess no expresslane for success and hardwork still the best way.

Good Luck PSO'ers.

Looking forward to another SM grind.

Wish me Luck.

PH
.
 
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Thu Jul 25, 2013, 05:42 AM
(#7)
s3n_dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 58
BronzeStar
Yes it is defintely a good spot to double up but with AQo its pure suicide

I guess i saw this hand and didnt believe my eyes you made that move.

Dan
 
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Thu Jul 25, 2013, 03:18 PM
(#8)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by s3n_dan View Post
Yes it is defintely a good spot to double up but with AQo its pure suicide

I guess i saw this hand and didnt believe my eyes you made that move.

Dan
It is nowhere near that bad. I plugged in UTG open of 10%, call off with AK and TT+, blinds call shove with top 3% and it is only a net loss of -728 chips.
So hardly suicide is it?
More importantly a read like the villain opening wide and not being too aware or bothered by short stacks and this easily becomes a profitable shove.
 
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Fri Jul 26, 2013, 04:19 AM
(#9)
s3n_dan's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 58
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
It is nowhere near that bad. I plugged in UTG open of 10%, call off with AK and TT+, blinds call shove with top 3% and it is only a net loss of -728 chips.
So hardly suicide is it?
More importantly a read like the villain opening wide and not being too aware or bothered by short stacks and this easily becomes a profitable shove.
But we have no reads here and I dont make assumptions that the villain is opening wide utg and -728 chips means that on average we lose , ok not suicide "on average" :p but some damage to our stack .I take the hand the way it is.
 
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Fri Jul 26, 2013, 02:39 PM
(#10)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
My point was with a tightish, big stack UTG opening raise it is a losing play, but a huge loser. Meaning we would only need some evidence that UTG is opening wide and it turns from being a losing to a profitable shove. Ofc here we don't have such reads, but it is worth bearing in mind.

My issue was that the play is not unbelievable suicide
 
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Fri Jul 26, 2013, 03:56 PM
(#11)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
It is nowhere near that bad. I plugged in UTG open of 10%, call off with AK and TT+, blinds call shove with top 3% and it is only a net loss of -728 chips.
So hardly suicide is it?
More importantly a read like the villain opening wide and not being too aware or bothered by short stacks and this easily becomes a profitable shove.
How do you make that calculation?
 
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Fri Jul 26, 2013, 05:47 PM
(#12)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Google RESHOVING AN OPEN RAISER
I doubt I am allowed to link
 

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