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2NL FR Deepstacked 78s - the PSO Saturday Game

2NL FR Deepstacked 78s - the PSO Saturday Game - Tue Jul 23, 2013, 04:28 PM
MadMike261's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 31
So this hand played out during the PSO Saturday Game and many people weren't expecting my hand at showdown. So after thinking this hand over for a few days I decided to post it here and share my thoughts on it.

Villain 3 is unknown to me stat wise, but I know he is a PSO regular.

On Villain 4 I do have stats. 10/5 with a 3bet of 3,8 and an AF of 16 over 200 hands. This villain is also a PSO regular.

Villain 3 opens and Villain 4 3-bets. Since he is 3betting an UTG open I put Villain 4 on QQ+ and AK. Since we are 250bb deep I decide to take off a flop and see what happens.

If Villain 3 would 4bet, I have an easy fold.

On the flop I hit a pair and Villain 4 cbets. I think he is doing this with his entire range so I am calling this bet. I am happy to see Villain 3 fold. If he raised or called I would be worried. Vs a raise I have an easy fold.

On the turn I hit second pair and I am now beating his entire range. I am not really considering JJ because of the early position this all happens in.

I prefer calling here because my opponent is so aggressive and I don't want to push him out of the pot if he has AK.

The king on the river is a nice card. If my opponent had AK he would have gotten there and will bet again. KK will hit trips, which sucks, but it is a small % of his range. QQ might check behind in fear of me having AK. And then there is still AA which would certainly bet again.

I didnt expect the shove, but I would expect AK and AA trying to get max value here aswell. Seeing the aggressive nature of our opponent I will still call here. I put this in pokerstove and against AK, KK+ I have 85% equity here.

There was also this spidy sense feeling I was good here.

In hindsight I am very curious to see what he put me on.

Also curious what you guys think in regard to how I played it.
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 07:26 PM
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Was he even reading your hand you shown interest in a dry flop so you either had a draw or AJ and maybe some other overs and pocket pairs you want to see the turn with knowing he is cbetting all of his range, when you call the turn bet i think its obvious you hold a strong hand.

He must of thought that because you never raised you didnt have anything better than TPTK or a draw all of which he expects you to fold to a river shove which i think looks weaker than half pot bet.

If i was playing as a lag there i would be thinking if you had TPTK or a draw you wouldn't be calling a big turn bet because you know that a lag is capable of putting your whole stack at risk on the river so when you called his turn bet it was pretty likely you beat 1 pair unless he thought you would call 2 streets with top pair or a draw and fold a shove.
Which would be a spew to call 2 streets with a draw and fold and i think if you call the turn you should be stacking off as well which i would rather avoid that play all together and let him have the pot.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 03:27 AM
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hey MadMike,

I'm not keen on calling middle-low SCs OOP vs a 3bet (especially one against an UTG open & Fullring!) when we don't even close the action.

OTF, against QQ+, AK as you range him (which will cbet 100% here) we have 44% equity. So okay we call with Middle pair - no kicker + BD draw (And not to forget, there is still the UTG opener behind us who has joined in the 3bet pot)- but what is our plan OTT anyway? x/c again? x/f? And we know we will get a bet on the turn atleast 65% of the time (21 combos of QQ+, 1 combo of AcKc) out of his 34 combos of starting hands so 22/34=.65

So we x/c, UTG folds and we hit one of our few outs to give us 2pair; now we are crushing opponents range. Why not raise it?
A Club or Spade OTR might either kill our action or improve our opponent.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 05:35 AM
AceKingBlows's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 101
Fold pre. Cold calling 3bs when not closing the action with a hand that looks pretty but is going to be really tough to play OOP (we're guaranteed to be OOP for the entire hand and UTG is still to act!) is kind of insane.

Last edited by AceKingBlows; Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 05:39 AM..
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 06:53 AM
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Think i need to stop posting after 12 im seeing all kinds of numbers i thought villain 4 had laggy stats last night, i know his AF is high but i guess with his vpip he can be pretty strong on the flop and turn.

I guess my read was irrelevant because his range isnt as wide with ten vpip as i thought it was still if he was opening a wide range and 3 betting alot i wouldn't mind that call every now and again to keep people guessing.

Not something i would be doing at 2nl but when you said it was a pso Saturday game i figured that you would be up against thinking players so i didnt mind the call. Geovarta makes a good point that your not closing the action which is very true maybe if we thought in BB and not cents it would be more of a fold even if villain 4 was a Lag but like i said its maybe not something i dont need to be thinking of right now but i was thinking it balances your range against thinking players so they cant range you on such a narrow range you gave UTG because thats never good.
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 10:53 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Mike,

This is a fold preflop imo. We're getting 30-1 implied with V4 which is about right for suited connectors, but we are out of position and don't close the action, and will often be in a 3 way pot as our call will bring an overcall frequently from the UTG raiser. It would at least be a better spot on the button where we can act post flop with the positional advantage and win sometimes without improving to a big hand... which is harder to do OOP for sure.

Flop check/call is fine here, but if we don't improve we are sort of forced to check/fold the turn, this is why the preflop call is bad, we leak a lot of money with plays like this over time. If we were in position we could feel more comfortable about playing the turn, and villain much less comfortable about being called on the flop. But here we check to him again and now he's not as uncertain.

When we get there on the turn, I wouldn't mind leading out with what looks like a blocking bet, as this line looks confusing to opponents and will induce mistakes when they think we're on a draw (raises from overpairs and calls from AK which is drawing dead). Although with V4's AF being so skewed towards aggression, it seems they have an exploitable mistake in their play there so check-raising to exploit it is fine. But I don't really like check-calling and checking the river, we just give them a chance to give up or slow down and show down now, and there are scare cards they might do this with.

Interesting read that you think the would shove AK or AA for value on the river here... I think it's really bad unless they view you as a loose fish, what worse hands will you call with? You suggested they might think you have AK, but I don't know why, you should never get to the river like this with AK, unless it was specifically suited and a flush draw that chose to play passively the whole way. You're not calling the river shove with AJ or QQ. You're raising (one would think) sets on the flop or turn. So if they are a thinking player they probably perceive you as having like no calling range on this river shove, which makes it a pretty nice bluff shove spot imo but not a good shove with AA (I'd bet smaller with AA so you can pay me off with worse 1 pair hands).

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