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KQs PokerSchool Open League Freeroll

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KQs PokerSchool Open League Freeroll - Thu Jul 25, 2013, 06:26 PM
(#1)
Courtland754's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 22
Hey Guys,

I'd like a little insight as to whether or not I played this hand correctly.

I have KQs, blinds are 30/60, I raise to 180, two callers,
Flop: Jh Qc 8d (my thinking is that I have top pair, strong kicker, and a decent draw to improve so I raise the pot)
both players call me and the turn comes out: 5s (blank, awesome! I move all in pretty confident that I'm ahead, with both players drawing and one moves all in and the other calls. turns out I was right about them both drawing)
river: Kd

I'm already all in with two pair
villain two got his K with K9 but is still behind me.
and villain one picks up his straight and the pot with A10o

Here's the hand:
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=15F07EC4CF

How can two players, both drawing, call a preflop bet, a pot-sized continuation bet, and an all-in on the turn with merely drawing hands?
Did I play this hand right and just went bust?
What is your insight?
 
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Thu Jul 25, 2013, 07:05 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,817
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi Courtland754!

Early in league games, I do not ever want to take a chance at all, especially at the end of the month when the point penalties for an early exit are much higher than at the beginning of the month (due to the scores going up).

With KQs from the hijack, I'm open-folding this hand. If I was on the button, then I'd make a standard opening raise to 3BB+1BB for each limper, but not from any earlier position. Points this time of the month are way too valuable to lose, as the monthly payouts are less than a week away.

Getting two callers here and not being in position here is a big problem (why I would open-fold it!), as either one of them can easily have me dominated. I have top pair/second kicker, but this is a very coordinated board, where someone could have flopped a straight and have me almost drawing dead. When it checks to me, I will make a standard value bet. Post-flop bets need to be made based on the size of the pot, number of opps in the hand and the board texture. With 2 opps in the hand, I need to bet 2/3 pot (no more, no less). Due to this, I will bet 380. I want to keep all of my bets standard, as betting more with better hands and less with marginal ones would turn my cards face-up to an observant opponent.
If this were a cash tourney, instead of a league game, there would be another thing to consider here and that is being pot-committed. A bet of 380 IS over 1/3 of my remaining chips, so if this were a regular cash tourney, I would have one play on the flop here.. SHOVE!

When 2 people call this flop bet, there is absolutely no way to tell that I'm the best hand or will have the best hand after the next card (I can easily be dominated by AQ or two pair or a set or a straight) and due to this, I'm not putting another chip into this pot unless my hand improves. I'm check/folding the turn and also on the river, if my hand does not improve.

In league games, I do NOT want to be all-in unless I'm sure that I will have the best hand after all 5 cards are on the board, especially early in the tourney. The risk that I'm taking (a large negative league point total that can cost me real$$$) is NEVER worth the risk of gaining a few tournament chips.

Also, for the turn shove, the first opp only needs 8 outs and the second opp needs 7 outs to make calling here a profitable play for them. The first opp can win against KQ with an A, K or 9, so they have plenty of outs to call this bet.. even with a draw. They're looking at 3 A's, 4 K's (although some were counterfeited) and 4 9's. To them, they have 11 outs, which is worth 22% equity and with their hand being worth that much, can easily call 15.5% pot equity. Even with the 3 of their outs being counterfeited, they have 8 good outs, which from the rule of 4 and 2 is worth 16%, while their pot equity is only 15.5%. Therefore, even with the counterfeited outs.. they SHOULD CALL.

Hope this helps and good luck with the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
Old
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Thu Jul 25, 2013, 07:48 PM
(#3)
Courtland754's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
Hi Courtland754!

Early in league games, I do not ever want to take a chance at all, especially at the end of the month when the point penalties for an early exit are much higher than at the beginning of the month (due to the scores going up).

With KQs from the hijack, I'm open-folding this hand. If I was on the button, then I'd make a standard opening raise to 3BB+1BB for each limper, but not from any earlier position. Points this time of the month are way too valuable to lose, as the monthly payouts are less than a week away.

Getting two callers here and not being in position here is a big problem (why I would open-fold it!), as either one of them can easily have me dominated. I have top pair/second kicker, but this is a very coordinated board, where someone could have flopped a straight and have me almost drawing dead. When it checks to me, I will make a standard value bet. Post-flop bets need to be made based on the size of the pot, number of opps in the hand and the board texture. With 2 opps in the hand, I need to bet 2/3 pot (no more, no less). Due to this, I will bet 380. I want to keep all of my bets standard, as betting more with better hands and less with marginal ones would turn my cards face-up to an observant opponent.
If this were a cash tourney, instead of a league game, there would be another thing to consider here and that is being pot-committed. A bet of 380 IS over 1/3 of my remaining chips, so if this were a regular cash tourney, I would have one play on the flop here.. SHOVE!

When 2 people call this flop bet, there is absolutely no way to tell that I'm the best hand or will have the best hand after the next card (I can easily be dominated by AQ or two pair or a set or a straight) and due to this, I'm not putting another chip into this pot unless my hand improves. I'm check/folding the turn and also on the river, if my hand does not improve.

In league games, I do NOT want to be all-in unless I'm sure that I will have the best hand after all 5 cards are on the board, especially early in the tourney. The risk that I'm taking (a large negative league point total that can cost me real$$$) is NEVER worth the risk of gaining a few tournament chips.

Also, for the turn shove, the first opp only needs 8 outs and the second opp needs 7 outs to make calling here a profitable play for them. The first opp can win against KQ with an A, K or 9, so they have plenty of outs to call this bet.. even with a draw. They're looking at 3 A's, 4 K's (although some were counterfeited) and 4 9's. To them, they have 11 outs, which is worth 22% equity and with their hand being worth that much, can easily call 15.5% pot equity. Even with the 3 of their outs being counterfeited, they have 8 good outs, which from the rule of 4 and 2 is worth 16%, while their pot equity is only 15.5%. Therefore, even with the counterfeited outs.. they SHOULD CALL.

Hope this helps and good luck with the tables.

John (JWK24)
Thank you very much for your response John,
it showed some insight into some things I wouldn't have thought about.
I will take these into account next time I am in a similar position !
 

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