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10nl Zoom - call or fold to the re-reraise (shove) holding trip Q's?

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10nl Zoom - call or fold to the turn re-reraise (shove) holding trip Q's? - Sat Jul 27, 2013, 01:38 PM
(#1)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Have really been enjoying the tricky call/fold spots that have been getting posted lately, and the discussions they've generated.


And now I've got one of my own - at first I felt okay with my play - here's everybody's HUD stats, along with the hand from my perspective:

(click on photo to view larger)



NoteTracker note on the bb:

[P] Called 2Bet from blinds range {KTo} (1)




Then I did that thing I've been doing of covering up my hand to try and get a look at how my range might have looked to the villain, and that made me feel like it might have been a lot closer a decision than I thought:




Second Question

Anybody prefer a squeeze pre-flop, even though the initial raiser only had a ft3Bet of 40%? Also, I wasn't sure if the fact that the stacks were so short for the two already in the hand made it better to 3-bet them, or better to just call?


PS Anybody read NVG at 2+2? Any chance he might have been betting KK into my trup QQ?? lol

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...people-838201/

Last edited by TrustySam; Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 01:54 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 29, 2013, 12:40 AM
(#2)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi Sam,

Preflop call I like fine here. Pretty small sample size of data on all villains but none are on really wide ranges so I think 3-betting isn't great, and AQ is too strong to just fold to the 26/20's MP open.

On the flop, I would prefer to lead right out. It's a 4 handed pot so there's no guarantee the PFR is going to bet for us, and V1 has been pretty nitty, so he probably will check it through with most of his hands... we really don't want to see a free card roll off with this board texture.

PFR does bet, but very small at 1/4 pot. This looks a lot like AK just following through, a made hand would probably bet more in a multi-way pot with a fairly wet flop. Nit flats. Like the check-raise here now as I think it's very likely we have the best hand, and don't want to give these guys an essential free card, but the sizing is too small... the PFR only has to call .60c more into what would be a 2.70 pot, so he's getting a great price to peel with AK and we're losing value from KQ which V3 or V1 may hold and call us. I like about 1.50 here.

V3 cold calls which is certainly cause for alarm. He rates to have a draw, KQ, or a flopped monster that checked to the raiser as a slow play imo (QT or a set).

Our bet sizing is small again, less than half the pot, and he shoves over it. While I think he would feel confident with KQ given our small sizing, there are only 4 combos of that holding, while there are 9 combos of full houses he can have. So folding to the shove is fine here.

Edit: Math check... we would be calling 8.88 to win a final pot of 25.97, so we need 34% equity to break even. Vs. a range of KQ, AQ, QT, TT, 55 we have 38%. If we took KQo out but added QJs in, our equity drops to 32%. So ultimately it seems to be very close. He may not shove KQ or QJ though for fear we have AQ or KQ ourselves, which may weight him to boats and crushes our equity (vs just 55, TT, QT we have only 13.6%). On balance I do think it's a fold.


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Mon Jul 29, 2013, 08:03 PM
(#3)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Dave, thanks so much - your answer's awesome!!


Pre-flop - squeeze, call, or fold?

Okay, totally wasn't sure whether to 3-bet or just call, but that makes sense that a call is best rather than (1) a re-raise, since villains ranges aren't super wide, (2) a fold, since AQo's still strong enough to do fine post-flop.


Post-flop - check-call, check-raise, check-fold? Lead out!

Now that you mention it, that's a really good point about how 4-handed I was lucky to have the chance to check-raise, since it there was a fair chance the villain wouldn't c-bet into 3 of us. And that if he didn't bet, the button probably wasn't going to either. That could have been one of those spots where I wound up learning the hard way that I should be betting out there, if the turn had been a K ... thankfully I submitted this hand to live training, so that's saved me a couple of $$ right there by fixing that leak right now


Still on the Flop - since I did check-raise ... what about the sizing? Too small

Ahhh ... so much to remember Note to self - don't forget to put villain's on specific ranges before betting, so you know what you're trying to accomplish with that bet!! And here we wanted to price out AK, and get value from TPLK (top pair lesser kicker). Looks like my reraise was too small by about 2/3 - yikes :/


Turn bet sizing

Okay - finally I did something half-right! lol - when 2 people called the reraise, and both are tight, I started to worry about the set.

But then I went and did something wrong lol. Guess I bet so small out of concern about a boat, without realizing how it made it look like I was on the flush draw. But as the one holding the trip, yeah I like a larger bet with a trip - to price out combo draws, and possibly get paid off by a lesser kicker ...


Turn - villain shoves ... call or fold

Ahhh ... I've done this sort of analysis before. But when it came to looking at my own hand, I forgot all about pokerstoving the villain's range But I'm glad I forgot and had to submit the hand, because I didn't think of the combinations thing.

Guess I'm not surprised to see that the decision to call or fold was right on the line +/-4% depending on ranging - that's how it sort of seemed in the moment.


Summary

Glad to hear the fold wasn't a huge leak or anything like that. But the best part about HA is always the discussion, and learning about all the stuff we didn't do or think about - both at the table, and afterwards when looking over our hands. I've learned so much from submitting this hand, so thanks so much Dave for the detailed help ... it's helped a lot!!
 

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