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5NL Fast (6 max) - BTN Steal with Q9o Vs BB

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5NL Fast (6 max) - BTN Steal with Q9o Vs BB - Sun Jul 28, 2013, 09:18 PM
(#1)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
$0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $5.90 (VPIP: 21.73, PFR: 15.96, 3Bet: 3.70, Hands: 43)
BB: $5.19 (VPIP: 41.03, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet: 3.57, Hands: 79)

Background:

is at the bottom of my range for BTN steals, but previous steals included 88, JJ & AQs so felt I had reasonably strong image. Villain [BB] was v active and my notes on him incl. 3bet range JJ, ATs [Vs LP R / steals]. Called 2bet from blinds with T5s, J9o, 33.

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.07) Hero has
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop : ($0.32, 2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

Villain leads out [small] OTF, so think he may have FD maybe small pair [22-88], QJ, QT, JT so opted to call and re-evaluate OTT.

Turn : ($0.52, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.34, BB calls $0.34

FD gets there & I hit my straight [& further outs]... so faced with a check OTT, I bet 2/3 pot [... & plan to fold to a raise]. Villain called, so at this stage; I put him on non nut flush / FD or small Ax straight draws / top pair / 2 pair combos & discounted nut flush / FD [as expect Villain to x/r], small to mid pairs.

River: To follow.

1. Should I be folding PF?
2. What range would you put Villain on?
3. Do you agree with how I played the hand so far / bet size OTT?

Welcome your thoughts / comments

Tony [aka Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Sun Jul 28, 2013 at 09:33 PM..
 
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Mon Jul 29, 2013, 01:03 AM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Q9 is fine to open on the btn.

Range wise, when they donk small, they usually have a marginal hand (2nd pair bad kicker) or a draw. Given the price we are getting OTF, calling is fine, but there's arguments for raising if we put him on a weak range.

I think sizing could be a little larger OTT to charge his one heart hands. Bet/folding is also good because although our hand is strong, against his value range we are pretty much drawing dead (AT, hearts).

He almost never has a flush OTT, and if he has 2 pair type hands we need to extract value.
 
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Mon Jul 29, 2013, 05:42 AM
(#3)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I like what birday said about raising his donk bet.
We don't have a strong draw and basically no over cards so our equity is bad even to his flop bet sizing. I'd like to raise here to rep a K and get him to fold his weak pair, obviously he will not go anywhere with his draws, Kx, 33. If he re-raises us its an easy fold.
If he calls, we are probably checking back turn unimproved and get to see the river.

As played, I agree with b/f turn. Maybe even bet bigger, he will call with a heart.
 
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Mon Jul 29, 2013, 02:04 PM
(#4)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy237 View Post
1. Should I be folding PF?
2. What range would you put Villain on?
3. Do you agree with how I played the hand so far / bet size OTT?

Welcome your thoughts / comments

Tony [aka Prodigy237]
Hi Tony,

to address your questions directly:

1. No, Q9o is a great hand to steal with. You have position and Q9o can flop decent equity even against better hands. I actually cannot even think about a situation in which I wouldn't want to open that hand OTB.

2. Villains Range looks like a weak TP or midpair that might have some extra outs like sinlge hearts. He probably wants to control the pot while looking to see the river cheaply.

3. Yes, absolutely like your line so far!


Live Trainer



 
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Mon Jul 29, 2013, 02:51 PM
(#5)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Hi Felix,

Thank you [& bird / geo] for your comments / feedback so far...

River : ($1.20, 2 players)

First I did a double take [... & after picking myself up of the floor] then turned my attention on how to achieve maximum value from my 'monster' hand?

Villain checked, so after using my clock opted to shove 'all in' as it would look like a 'bluff' & having already discounted Villain holding ... thought he may still call with single heart.

Villain called & showed - Royal Flush Vs K high Straight Flush [... & I cannot repeat my next few words].

Questions:

1. As played, should I have taken a different line OTR & was I wrong to discount
2. Was this clever play by Villain... or dumb luck?

Welcome your comments / feedback.

Tony [aka Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 02:54 PM..
 
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Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:36 PM
(#6)
PSO-xflixx's Avatar
Since: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,119
(Live Trainer)
As shoving is a pretty huge overbet and you don't hold the nuts I would refrain from doing that. I'd rather just bet a normal amount. If he then proceeds to shove it's a gross spot too, but he might also do that on a bluff at least (can't call your overbet with bluffs and might usually fold weaker hands).


Live Trainer



 
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Tue Jul 30, 2013, 04:43 PM
(#7)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSO-xflixx View Post
As shoving is a pretty huge overbet and you don't hold the nuts I would refrain from doing that. I'd rather just bet a normal amount. If he then proceeds to shove it's a gross spot too, but he might also do that on a bluff at least (can't call your overbet with bluffs and might usually fold weaker hands).
Hi Felix,

I simply didn't put him on the , so thought I was way ahead... Had I made a standard value bet OTR & Villain RR 'all in' I think I would struggle to find the fold button here 99.9% of the time, especially given the way he had played the hand... gross spot indeed.

Thanks again for your feedback... Much appreciated.

Tony [aka Prodigy237]
 
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Tue Jul 30, 2013, 06:10 PM
(#8)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy237 View Post
I simply didn't put him on the
I guess there's two reasons it's so profitable to play against people with 'loose passive' stats of VPIP/PFR 41.03/11.54. First, they play too many marginal hands when others are playing strong ones - and then stay in hands far too long with those marginal hands. And second, people who play 41% of all starting hands, hands like T5s oop without initiative, tend to be more recreational type players, who maybe don't have strong hand reading skills and stuff? Like it's a correlation, not a causal thing?

So the thing with widening our range on the button - since it lowers the edge due to card strength, aren't we more reliant on superior play to have an edge? Like, casual players might not play a complicated game, but paradoxically, ranging them - when they have a 40%+ range can be quite complex when Q9o vs T5s is a potential match-up ...

About 50,000 hands into 5nl, I did a hand history review and noticed I was winning a lot of little pots with middling unsuited gappers on the button - but was losing big pots. And when that happened, oftentimes it was because I was up against unknowns with some hands that were part of a really wide range.

I think it's probably normal at 5nl to miss hands versus loose passives - I mean like the guy's got a 40%+ range - what were the chances he actually had the stronger hand, when he's got so many that are weaker? Being able to play match-ups like Q9o vs T5s (since that's part of the villain's range) ... I think that's a level of play that's more something we might aspire to and be working towards at 5nl, rather than a level of play we're expected to be able to play profitably ... at least right off the bat? Felix can play these match-ups no sweat, which is why he crushes 5nl every time he does his grinding up challenge. But that's why he's the teacher, right?

After doing my hand review, I think I cut back on raising Q9o versus everybody and saved it more for the tighter players? And saved the better hands for the looser ones? With the intent of trying to ease my way into being able to play hands like Q9o versus more looser players? And I think I've made some progress - but it's taken time, which is okay I think ... poker's not easy

Just wanted to share my story, because I'm pretty sure it's fairly typical for 5nl ...
 

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