Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

25nl zoom Good spot to double barrel or not?

Old
Default
25nl zoom Good spot to double barrel or not? - Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:53 AM
(#1)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
Opponent seems to be weak playing 33/6/.8AF fold to cbet 33% on 18 hands

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (Button) ($34.50)
SB ($27.11)
BB ($26.55)
UTG ($25)
MP ($26.37)
CO ($26.24)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 8
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, SB calls $0.40, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.25) A, 7, 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.70, SB calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.65) A (2 players)
SB checks

Total pot: $2.65

Results below:
Click to show hidden text


So after cbet with my SD and BDFD, the turn brings the second A and the third flush card to the board, i couldnt decide if this was a good card to double barrel or a bad card.

On one side i get extra outs to an A a T with no JQKc and small flushes, on the other hand, i loss fold equity, the only think he its folding its a 7, JQ, J9,98,68 with no c. Also i could be drawing death, my straight outs are likely not to be clean and i could get CR by an A or a made flush.

Seems like there are more reasons not to cbet but would like to hear some opinions.
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:20 AM
(#2)
TommyGun369's Avatar
Since: Nov 2012
Posts: 340
You said it yourself:
1) You could already be drawing dead which means you just improved to 0 outs
2) FD just got there
3) A is never folding
4) JJ-KK and virtually any T is not folding

I see no point in barreling here. Your folding equity droped significantly while you picked up some real hand equity. You do not want to lose it by getting raised and having to fold. I would just take the free card
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:17 AM
(#3)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
Just fold preflop.
And is also a bad spot to double barrel, since he is not folding a lot maybe Tx, 7x although that depends on villain.
You probably have to triple barrel most of the times to win.
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:47 AM
(#4)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi Carlos,

I did some Flopzilla work and here's what I came up with.
Assuming villain will raise his 2Pair+ hands on the flop, I think his flop continuation range will constitute of: 42% TP Hands, 22% MP, 30% Gutshots, and only 7% Flush draws

The Ace OTT will now give him 32% 3 of a kind, 25% MP, 32% gutshots, and 3% made flushes
So I think that the Ac is no different than the Ah obviously.
So for a 2nd barrel to work here we need villain to fold 57% of the time (25% MP + 32% Gutshots); however considering villain type and the Ac is on board, I think villain will now continue with MP+FD and Gutshots + FD so I think our fold equity drops down to 45% (102 combos that continue / 185 combos that saw flop); I think we might have had an even chance of FE if the turn was not a club - not because they often have a flush but because they will continue with MP+FD/GS+FD
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:54 PM
(#5)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaRLoS_DZ87 View Post
On one side i get extra outs to an A a T with no JQKc and small flushes, on the other hand, i loss fold equity, the only think he its folding its a 7, JQ, J9,98,68 with no c. Also i could be drawing death, my straight outs are likely not to be clean and i could get CR by an A or a made flush.

Seems like there are more reasons not to cbet but would like to hear some opinions.

Oh, here's something everybody might find interesting - there was somewhat similar, somewhat different spot in a live training class - 'Staying Aggressive #1 (Nov. 14, 2012, @20:52)'

Hero(mp):
Villain(d)
Pot: $1.77
Board:

Plan: C-bet $1.23 on the flop, with the intent of continuing on the turn with any non-J heart


Stuff that's similar to Carlos' hand

• AJ would be barreling on the turn having picked up an additional flush draw, even though it might be behind better made hands
• So a non-J heart turn would bring lots of hand equity, but not a lot of fold equity


Stuff that's different

• oop
• paired vs non-paired board
• also maybe ... J blocked JT making the straight less likely, and Ah (along with the Qh and Kh being on the board) blocked a lot of possible flush draws?
• but as a back-up, AhJh was drawing to the nut straight and the nut flush - and with the board being wet, there was that chance of getting paid off by lesser straights/flushes if one of them came in?


PS Is everybody going to the Live Training class on C-betting starting in an hour? Should be good!

Last edited by TrustySam; Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 01:57 PM..
 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:19 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Carlos,

Everyone kind of broke this down pretty nicely already, but I'll echo the sentiment... loose-passive villain calls on the flop, which means he's got something, and actually I think none of it folds on the turn except gut shots that have no clubs. Check back, and give up imo. Even if we make our hand, if a guy this passive pots the river I'd just fold, as he'll often check down even 3 aces to us on this type of board. I would go for value against 3 aces if he does check and we've rivered a straight.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 04:25 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Stuff that's different
Villain read is pretty critical too. This villain is loose passive, our FE is much higher on the flop when he can still have whiffed. Once he calls FE goes way down.

Gareth's board a tighter player might take a card off in position fairly wide, but fold turn on any card that doesn't improve them if we barrel, so FE may not be going down there and against some villain types may increase on the turn.


Head Live Trainer
Check out my Videos

4 Time Bracelet Winner



 
Old
Default
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 05:24 PM
(#8)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
Ok check back it is, im glad i did that, thx everybody.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com