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Ask Jared Tendler - The Mental Game of Poker

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Ask Jared Tendler - The Mental Game of Poker - Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:07 AM
(#1)
PSO Admin's Avatar
Since: May 2010
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Hello,

If you haven't heard of them already then PokerSchoolOnline would like to introduce to you Jared Tendler and Barry Carter, authors of the 'Mental Game of Poker' books.


Barry & Jared

If you would like to find out more about Jared and Barry check out their website www.mentalgamefish.com


Both Jared and Barry have kindly offered to answer any 'mental game' question you may have here in this thread.

Poker as we know can be a mentally exhausting game. Have you ever suffered tilt? Find it hard to grind multi-tables for hours on end? Ever wondered how on Earth those Supernova Elites do it?

If the answer is 'Yes' to any of the above then Jared (JaredTendler) and Barry (Daveshoelace) are here to help so give them a warm welcome and get posting your questions.

Team PokerSchoolOnline.


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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:00 AM
(#2)
PSO Admin's Avatar
Since: May 2010
Posts: 301
(Administrator)
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Hello again,

Here's some more good news for you.

Jared and Barry have kindly offered to giveaway 3 FREE COPIES of either of their books to 3 lucky PokerSchoolOnline members during the month of August.

The top three best member questions asked, as judged by Jared, will each win a copy of his book, one book per member.

Best of Luck!

Team PokerSchoolOnline.


Team PokerSchoolOnline - Administration

 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:40 AM
(#3)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
I have played poker of various forms for 40+ years. But I still find that I tend to talk myself into very poor plays on too many occasions when I ponder a situation more than about 20 seconds. Is "Study long, study wrong." actually true?
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:47 AM
(#4)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
This is great, I love the books.
They definitely have helped me to improve my understanding of poker psychology.
I have only one question for the guys.
If and when is the TMGOP 3 coming, or if they plan on writing a different poker theme book?
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:48 AM
(#5)
DaveShoelace's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 6
Thanks very much.

Jared will be along later (you don't want me answering your questions lol) - but awesome first question TrumpinJoe
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:52 AM
(#6)
DaveShoelace's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by GamblingProp View Post
This is great, I love the books.
They definitely have helped me to improve my understanding of poker psychology.
I have only one question for the guys.
If and when is the TMGOP 3 coming, or if they plan on writing a different poker theme book?
TMGOP 3 is not currently planned. Book 1 and 2 essentially covered the breadth of Jared's theory, originally they were going to be the one book but it would have been way too long.

However, fans of the books may be interested to know that there is something being created which takes his work one step further, with a view to it being released (hopefully) early next year. Can't say more than that I am afraid.
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:50 AM
(#7)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Welcome to PSO! It is great to see you both here

I become a bit insecure whenever I have a downswing lasting more than 5K hands, about a weeks worth of poker. Do you have any good advice for differentiating between "running bad" and "playing bad"?

In these situations I don't want to change my A-game if I am simply "running bad". Yet, I don't want to ignore the obvious if I am "playing bad". Either way, downswings do take a toll on my confidence level.

I am a profitable cash player. I use HEM2 and review my stats actively.

Thanks!

Roland GTX
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:28 AM
(#8)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Hey Barry!

I know that my goals aren't necessarily optimal for a variety of reasons http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...Awe-2013-Goals
Since lots of us have goals/challenge threads it would be really useful if Jared can say a bit about how to set effective poker goals.

THANKS!
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:05 AM
(#9)
effsea's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,609
Howdy,

Like TrumpinJoe......I have been playing for years, that being said......

Here's my question......


talking/reading about badbeats/suckouts help in any way?


My 2 cents on the matter....I like to answer my own questions think I know it all...hiccup

I think they don't.......no one wants to hear about them, and not understanding they can happen is a major leak...IMO

I stopped reading and talking about them over two years ago and I no longer tilt.

Cheers man
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 10:52 AM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hey guys, welcome to PSO!

Are live trainers eligible to win book copies? I have read other publications on the mental game but not yet Jared and Barry's work... I would love to review even a kindle copy

At any rate here is my question. Typically when we talk about the mental game of poker we address the negative times... downswings, variance, losing streaks, and running bad. And for sure it's critical to deal effectively with these aspects of the game. And we somewhat understandably forget about the positive times. So how about the pitfalls there (which poker players often don't see coming)? In my experience a player running good, in an upswing, etc often runs into things like over-confidence, over-estimating one's abilities, laziness (not working on one's game), bankroll management issues (playing above their roll), etc. What are some good methods for avoiding some of the pitfalls that a stretch of run good can bring and keeping a level head?


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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:00 PM
(#11)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,355
Hi Jared and Barry.

I'm a winning player, but I've stuck to the lowest limits for a long time and I think the main reason is that I'm naturally risk averse. As soon as I start playing for "meaningful" amounts of money, I think I play too cautiously, as I find the game a little bit too stressful. I know of the saying "scared money is dead money", so I'd like to know if you have any advice for risk averse players like me?

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 12:26 PM
(#12)
Ovalman's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,778
Hi Jared and Barry,

I'm working through back issues of the Mental Game Radio Podcast from episode 1 and now onto the Gavin Griffin show. I've a lot of material to go through still but I'm getting through 2 episodes a week and thoughroughly enjoying it

This post really couldn't have come at a better time as I've realised a mental issue I've probably had since I started playing poker. I also haven't heard of this issue in your podcast at least up to the Gavin Griffin show.

I'm a bankroll nit and still stuck at micro stakes. I can beat these stakes but every time I move up I have a habit of moving back down when things don't go my way and "protecting" my wins.

For instance I played 50c 45 man games with a ROI of 35% in over 500 games but when I moved up to $1.50 my ROI dropped and after a few games I took it hard and moved back down.

Another example, I like Limit Holdem and had a winrate of 7BBs/100 in 7,000 at the lowest level. After something I read on 2P2 I moved to 25c/50c because I had the bankroll. Things went well until I hit the inevitable downswing. Instead of grinding it out and playing to my actual bankroll, I protected what I had and moved away from Limit altogether.

I understand about variance and realise that luck won't always go my way but I also know that my game is OK and I'm playing at a level well below where I should be.

Another point is I've came from a freeroll background and even small amounts of money mean something to me. I've a habit of lifting out some of my bankroll and spending it, leaving enough in my account to build up from the lowest level where the inevitable cycle starts over again.

I don't mind taking stabs at higher level BTW, I just don't feel comfortable staying there. It's frustrating because I know I could be playing much higher.

It's definitely a mental issue.

Many thanks

Mark.


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by Ovalman; Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 01:21 PM..
 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:11 PM
(#13)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Hi Jared and Barry,

I have a question on concentration, I like a lot of online players multitask when playing poker, if I am in a tournament or a long session I like to listen to an Audiobook or Podcast.

Do you think listening to music is too distracting or a relaxing aid to concentration, or is this a "it depends" type of deal

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:52 PM
(#14)
iggyo's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 171
Wow, great question Dave. It was similar to what I was going to ask, so I'm going to change it up. :P

I'm a firm believer that the difference among the top players is their mental game. They all have nearly the same skill but their approach mentally to the game is what sets them apart from the "second tier" players. Is this true and what is that "something" that makes them stand out from the rest of them?

Thanks for your valuable time and advice!

Lester


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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:39 PM
(#15)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
What a great opportunity this is to get some valuable advice so firstly I'd like to say thank you to Barry and Jared and welcome to he PSO forums. I think you may have your work cut out for you.

Already some great questions but hopefully I can ask something that will benefit everyone too. I was wondering how do you separate poker from your personal life? I'm sure we all have real life issues such as family/relationship problems or other problems from time to time. Is there some advice or tips you can give on keeping these problems from affecting your mind set while playing poker?

Cheers,

Chris



Tournament of Champions Winner 2013

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Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:53 PM
(#16)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
Hi Jared and Barry! I often find myself avoiding poker sessions out of fear that a bad session could have a negative impact on my mood. This usually occurs when I have time for a shorter session before going to work. I have a stressful job so I'm not sure if I have the mental energy to withstand both the stress from a disastrous session and stress from work during the same day.

I do think it can be done, but my question is what would be a good way to approach this problem? It feels like an irrational fear because I seem overly concerned over the 'worst case scenario'.

Happy to see you guys helping out at the PSO.

Thanks,
Sean

Last edited by RockerguyAA; Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 06:56 PM..
 
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Mental Book of Poker - Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:56 PM
(#17)
DrEllenCait's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 125
BronzeStar
Hey Jared & Barry,

How unbelievably generous of both of you to offer advice to all of us at PSO! I am very grateful and started the discussion with my blog on Volume 1.

I come to poker as a bridge pro and teacher of 17 years and bridge folks are snobs who tend to look down on poker as a game of luck. So guess what my block is?!: A Sense of Entitlement ( and while I am embarrassed to suggest it, maybe being a doctor of psychiatry doesn't help!)

My issue in large tournaments is that I start off as chip leader at my table. As long as I can maintain that, I am relaxed; but once I lose chips for a play I know I should not have made, I tilt.

So while I am most comfortable and do best playing high stakes 9 and 18-handed Sit & Goes, I did play in the Micro Millions this past Sunday. The pattern was the initially the same but when I initially lost chips, I didn't feel I was undermining myself making a knowingly bad play. The big difference, though, was that I told myself that this not catastrophic and I would regain chips and I did. I busted out when a fellow who had known to go all-in with 76s and the likes/called all-in at showdown and with my AA, I felt pretty good about my odds. He had 66 and on the river, another 6 appeared! Such is life

So far your book has helped me change the story I tell myself and I look forward to reading Volume 2.

Last edited by DrEllenCait; Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 07:04 PM..
 
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Come Join Us! - Wed Jul 31, 2013, 08:23 PM
(#18)
DrEllenCait's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 125
BronzeStar
Come Join Us!

Here is the blog inviting all PSO members to join a study group on 'The Mental Book of Poker' inviting ALL PSO members to join a study group on Volume 1.

I know we have shy members, members whose ego may get in the way, but we ALL have things to learn about the mental/emotional part of the game.

So just put all emotions aside (!), drop me an email when the best time for you would be (please give country you are in so I can figure it out!) and from all the posts to Jared and Barry, we should have a great group. Who knows, maybe Jared and/or Barry would start us off!
 
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Thu Aug 01, 2013, 03:02 AM
(#19)
DaveShoelace's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 6
Morning guys, just to say Jared will be coming on around midday european time to start answering.


Barry Carter - The Mental Game of Poker
 
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Thu Aug 01, 2013, 03:09 AM
(#20)
DaveShoelace's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrumpinJoe View Post
I have played poker of various forms for 40+ years. But I still find that I tend to talk myself into very poor plays on too many occasions when I ponder a situation more than about 20 seconds. Is "Study long, study wrong." actually true?
Jared will answer this also, but I love this question as it's something he and I have talked about a lot.

Generally that very first instinct you feel, that first decision, represent what you know the best. So if you think 'fold' instantly, it is because everything in your poker training so far makes you think it is a fold.

This is very good if you are an experienced player, but if you are new you don't have that experience to trust your gut. As a default, we like going with your gut though, in fact we wrote a blog about it:

http://www.mentalgamefish.com/trust-your-gut/

(Mods sorry for posting a link, I presume it is ok as it is the same as the OP)


Barry Carter - The Mental Game of Poker
 

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