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how to play this hand

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how to play this hand - Wed Nov 27, 2002, 10:20 PM
(#1)
Deleted user
Howdy,

Still new to NL - here's I hand I could not quite figure. NLHE sattelite first hand - all have 2,000, blinds 25-50. Im on the button with A10o. UTG calls, player on my immediate right calls, I call SB calls BB checks. Flop 10c 9c 4d. All check to me, I make a pot sized bet expecting to take it there, but player on my right calls. Next card is a 2 (not a club), checked to me, I have the guy on overcards and bet the pot again, he calls. Next card is a blank, no flush but an unlikely 5 high straight possibility. Checked to me - I am at a loss here, Im about to go all in and elect to check instead, guy also has A10o and we split the blinds. How should this hand have been played?

Thanks,
EG
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 10:30 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
hello, i think you played it ok post flop, since everyone limped in preflop, you could have been against 9/10 for two pair, or any hand. i personally would have put in a raise preflop to limit the field a little, then a bet on the flop, the A10 may lay down thinking you have an overpair.(although i doubt it) depends on the player. but going all in on the river would be a bad move, he could be slowplaying JJ, and just afraid to bet it, but would call all in. save your money for when you have a true monster hand.

jmuzzey
 
Old
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Wed Nov 27, 2002, 10:45 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
no problem with limping preflop...u hit a favorable flop...i'd probably have bet close to the pot, maybe 3/4s of the pot. on the turn, i would not suggest betting the pot, because it essentially leaves u committed no matter what, if i did my math correctly. i'd probably bet about 400 or 500 on the turn. when this player calls both my bets on the flop and turn, i am not feeling too good about my top pair anymore and would be more than willing to check behind on the river and hope for a chop, which is what you got. keep spreading the jam, good luck...

dan
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 09:56 AM
(#4)
Deleted user
ATo not good enough at big-bet to raise early limpers preflop, so a limp is best. Bet pot on flop due to texture of the board. 1 caller, checked to you on turn. Due to action and stack sizes, you just have to bite the bullet and bet all-in on the turn. Biting the bullet here is an important lesson to learn in big-bet.

Since you did not bet all-in on turn, then when river is blank and opponent checks, you must check and see who is best, unless maybe the opponent is a real bad predictable player. If river was a blank and opponent had bet all-in, then you should call.
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 11:43 AM
(#5)
Deleted user
Agree with Dreams. Close to pot-sized bet on flop, then medium ($300 or so) on the turn.

I am checking on the river.


Randy
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 12:00 PM
(#6)
Deleted user
the one problem i see with such a cmall bet on the turn is, it looks weak! what if the player decides to come over the top of you and go all in? are you going to call his bet? if you do, i think it would be a bad call. too many poeple slow play big pairs like that, then you are trapped. checking the river is fine, but it is better to bet the pot on the turn, or go all in there. if you plan on only betting 300 or so, then i think it is better to check it down and hope they dont go all in on the river. dont lose control of the pot, and dont give it away. make them do the thinking and make them make the decisions for their chips, try to keep it from getting reversed. i made that mistake several times lately, and have had to fold top pair top kicker, or even overpairs, because there were just too many hands that could beat me. if i would have called, i would have won a few of them, but it just wasnt the right move at the time. i think it is the same situation here. good luck and flop the nuts...........

jmuzzey
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 12:13 PM
(#7)
Deleted user
Good point Jay. I guess it depends on the opponent there.

But I bet weak a lot of times when I have a very strong hand. So it depends on whether this opponent has seen me play and whether he pays attention or not.


Still a very valid point.


Randy
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 12:46 PM
(#8)
Deleted user
going all in on the turn is very viable option, but when somebody calls a pot sized bet on the flop with that rag flop, I am not feeling too good about my AT, to tell you the truth (let's just pretend we are playing in a real $ live event). at best, you have to be hoping for a chop at best. KT, QT, JT probably would've led out on the flop. Hands that come to mind that check call a pot sized bet include a set, 2 pair, etc. I think any draw would go for a check raise on the flop, as that is the play to make with those type of hands. because this is a 2k starting chip satellite, i just wouldnt want to invest my entire stack with this hand at this point considering the flat call on the flop. you can be aggressive without committing your whole stack in borderline situations...jam rooolz...

dan
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 02:00 PM
(#9)
Deleted user
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreams32097
going all in on the turn is very viable option, but when somebody calls a pot sized bet on the flop with that rag flop, I am not feeling too good about my AT,
10c 9c 4d flop is ragged?

I don't feel good about AT either in that situation, but like I said, this is an example of a hand where you just have to bite the bullet and pray. Look at the action up to that point. Your opponent has check-called on the flop and then checked the turn. Are we meant to be scared by such a show of non-strength? Why do people seem to automatically be scared when our opponent has done nothing to suggest strength. They may have a monster but it is much more likely to be a weak or drawing hand. Checking just gives our opponent licence to bluff a busted draw on river. Betting the pot is not a good idea due to the stack sizes. I certainly would never call this bet on the turn, I would either fold or move-in whatever hand I wanted to go with. Betting pot is awful really. Betting smaller also gives licence to the opponent to bluff turn or river. With such shallow money, there is no wiggle room. If we are against a slowplayed monster then thats just one of those things. However, the fear of going bust, because of the shallow stacks, should not stop us from making the correct play for the situation.


Quote:
to tell you the truth (let's just pretend we are playing in a real $ live event). at best, you have to be hoping for a chop at best.
At best we are hoping to be against the type of hand that their actions have represented, either a weak hand or a draw. Are there no bad players in real money events? Against certain players, their call would set off a red flag to be done with the hand. However, against a typical or unknown opponent, we just have to take their actions at face value. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck etc.

Quote:
KT, QT, JT probably would've led out on the flop. Hands that come to mind that check call a pot sized bet include a set, 2 pair, etc.
Actually, I think check-calling in their position with any hand is a bad mistake, whether it was a monster or a draw/weak.

Quote:
I think any draw would go for a check raise on the flop, as that is the play to make with those type of hands.
I agree. A check-raise all-in. But I also think that is the correct move with a monster also, due to the texture of the board, stack sizes, and their position.

Quote:
because this is a 2k starting chip satellite, i just wouldnt want to invest my entire stack with this hand at this point considering the flat call on the flop. you can be aggressive without committing your whole stack in borderline situations
Playing these turn situations committally, and doing the right thing even if it means losing your stack if you are wrong, is an important thing to learn with regards big-bet play. Maybe the most important. This hand is a perfect example.
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 03:26 PM
(#10)
Deleted user
i guess i misread the original post, lol...what's new? T94 with two clubs...you mention check raising all in with a monster. i wouldn't check raise all in with a set here. I'd raise his 250 to say 800, leaving him a little over 1k if he calls. then push it on the turn, when he is basically committed with his AT. I don't think check calling here with a monster is such a bad idea. Say, I got QJclubs, it might be wise to just smooth call on the flop and then bet big on turn regardless of what falls, but this depends on the type of opponent you are up against.

j.a.m.
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 03:57 PM
(#11)
Deleted user
Maybe I'm just overly conservative, but I wouldn't have called preflop. With limpers already in, I don't think theres any flop short of TTT or AAA that I'm really comfortable with.

For me, ATo, like AJo, is an open-raiser when first in in MP or better, but a pretty easy fold if other players have already entered the pot. There are going to be better spots to put your chips in, wait for them.
 
Old
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Thu Nov 28, 2002, 04:04 PM
(#12)
Deleted user
jesse,

preflop, i'd probably have folded as well, depending on whether or not the limpers were maniacs, which is often the case in sats here. i was just discussing the post flop possibilities...

j.a.m.
 
Old
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Fri Nov 29, 2002, 12:08 AM
(#13)
Deleted user
I'd have probably called preflop, but I wouldn't have necessarily got involved with top pair on the flop depending on the action to me. maybe that's wrong. Certainly, at limit play I would fold ATo v tight limpers, but I don't at big-bet. Regardless of whether I would be wrong to call preflop at big-bet, I would have usually folded on the flop if it was bet to me and I flopped top pair.

Dreams. Actually, I wouldn't have check-raised all-in with a set in that situation. I would have probably bet out unless I expected it to be bet for me. I would have check-raised if it was raised preflop though, assuming money wasn't too deep. I think I've identified a lack of balance in my game there, as I would have usually checked a big draw. I think.

I still don't like how you would have played the set if you expect the opponent to just call rather than move-in in reaction to your check-raise not all-in. Though, I would have thought calling your raise with that depth of money would only be an option for bad players. In a situation where the money was deep enough for them to call, (and I don't think this one was), then I hate that move. It's terrible for a number of reasons. Though, if the money wasn't deep enough to check-raise all-in then you are best betting straight out.

Man, I'm all over the place. lol. Did that make any sense whatsoever?
 
Old
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Fri Nov 29, 2002, 09:45 AM
(#14)
Deleted user
I'm with Jesse here... first round in a sat, I'd rather limp with 83o because if I hit my top card twice I'm likely to be winning, if I'm raised by the blinds it's an easy decision and the same just isn't true of AT
 

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