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QTs on a BB

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QTs on a BB - Wed Aug 07, 2013, 05:36 AM
(#1)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Hello,
New at cash games and I have question about calling with suited connectors . Is it profitable to call here OOP? I made some calculation and need to check them. Hand range of first raiser TT+,AKs,AKO, hand range of caller 22-88, against their ranges I've got 26% equity, and I need 19% , am I right? So I have to call there
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Last edited by Shichi-77; Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 05:38 AM..
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 09:59 AM
(#2)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
hi Shichi,

your calculations are right, just checked them and got the same results. But that result does not mean you have have to call here, if you calculate the same scenario for the holecards K5s you actually get 21% equity. So does that mean you should call here with K5s? Definitely not.

The equity you are calcualting there is the preflop all in equity, so if your range you assigned to the villain were correct and the villains were allin with their 40 cents you actually should call with QTs and even K5s here. But since they have a lot of chips behind comparing the allin equity to the pot odds is not the right way to decide, if you should play your hand here.

Against the ranges you assigned to your villains I would actually play your hand here since it has a good postflop playability a potential to hit a big hand and your opponents are pretty much full stacked. But I dont think you assigned the ranges correctly. I find it extremely difficult to assign precice preflop ranges expecially in theese lower limits but I assume UTG plays wider here most the time especially since he is not completey full stacked and probably not a reg and villain 1 plays a lot more hands here too, not sure how you come up with this super narrow 22-88 range for him. So since their ranges are wider and there are probably hands like AQ and KQs in their ranges which dominate your hand, I think folding becomes a bit more attractive option here, given the small price they charge you and the probably inexperienced UTG Raiser I would still call here though.

Last edited by almigthybald; Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 10:04 AM..
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 10:44 AM
(#3)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by almigthybald View Post
hi Shichi,

your calculations are right, just checked them and got the same results. But that result does not mean you have have to call here, if you calculate the same scenario for the holecards K5s you actually get 21% equity. So does that mean you should call here with K5s? Definitely not.

The equity you are calcualting there is the preflop all in equity, so if your range you assigned to the villain were correct and the villains were allin with their 40 cents you actually should call with QTs and even K5s here. But since they have a lot of chips behind comparing the allin equity to the pot odds is not the right way to decide, if you should play your hand here.

Against the ranges you assigned to your villains I would actually play your hand here since it has a good postflop playability a potential to hit a big hand and your opponents are pretty much full stacked. But I dont think you assigned the ranges correctly. I find it extremely difficult to assign precice preflop ranges expecially in theese lower limits but I assume UTG plays wider here most the time especially since he is not completey full stacked and probably not a reg and villain 1 plays a lot more hands here too, not sure how you come up with this super narrow 22-88 range for him. So since their ranges are wider and there are probably hands like AQ and KQs in their ranges which dominate your hand, I think folding becomes a bit more attractive option here, given the small price they charge you and the probably inexperienced UTG Raiser I would still call here though.
Understood what you have written. thanks. I understand that one pair isn't enough here , I meant hitting a flop like this or two pairs or trips would be enough often . and about their hand ranging , scence I didn't have stats for them I used standard play as for me.

Last edited by Shichi-77; Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 10:48 AM..
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 11:27 AM
(#4)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Yep, i'd call here. Suited broadways have good nutt3d (seriously, *****d is censored?) possibilities and play well multiway.

The only problem in this situation is that we are playing against half stacks so our implied odds go down.
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 12:09 PM
(#5)
almigthybald's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 94
oh yeah, damn, thought those are full stacks, got that wrong in my statement. Think I still call here but I would fold to a 50 cents open.
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 08:37 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,512
(Head Trainer)
Hi Shichi,

Yeah, I agree with bald and birdayy, although vs. half stackers it's close.

We have to be very careful about miss using equity runs... like bald said this is giving us all in equity (or more specifically, equity to win at showdown), but we are not all in here, there is a lot of money left to bet. So while we might have a slight positive needing 19% and having 26% against their ranges, we also need to be able to realize that equity, and sometimes we can't. For example, part of that 26% equity (a small part, granted, but just to illustrate the idea of realization) includes us going runner runner to win the hand at showdown. So like if the flop comes Ac2s3h, V7 c-bets and V1 calls, and we are check-folding. Then the turn and river come the Kc and Jc and we would have made a royal. We don't get to realize the equity of a running straight, running flush, or running royal. Or a running 2 pair, or whatever. When it's an all in preflop situation we always realize our equity because we always see all 5 board cards.

That said, QTs does have some good post flop playability (allowing us to realize our equity more often, and sometimes semi-bluff villains off their hand and denying them realizing THEIR equity). But it's also important we play very well post flop imo, because we will get into quite a few sticky spots, like on a Q high flop where we don't have any idea if we're good or not, and we're out of position without initiative. If you're new to cash games, I would fold these spots while getting settled in. When more experienced, you can profitably call more of these spots. Also without reads, fold more often, as villain ranges are less defined and it's harder to navigate a lot of spots readless.


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