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"Open League" 'sitters'

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"Open League" 'sitters' - Wed Aug 07, 2013, 12:37 PM
(#1)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
I am making an 'appeal to reason' to the 'powers-that-be' to begin to mull over what good is provided to the "SKILL" League by allowing a 'sitter' to blind out in the "OPEN".
Please correct me if I am wrong or misguided but I see no good being done for the League as a whole & certainly a tremendous injustice done to PSO (Intellipoker et al)League Players.
I have been at tables with as many as 6 sitters & 3 involved players more than once and many, many times played for the entire 1st hour at the same table with 3 sitters there till almost break or in some cases, an orbit after(1:08).
Certainly no "OPEN" Player can contest those facts.
Furthermore, the 'sitter' in question certainly gains no 'SKILL' while not participating in the tourney.
Additionally, there seems to be no 'equality' of tourney experience as the tourney played by a player with 6 sitters(OMG) is vastly different than than the tourney played with 3 sitters & enormously different than the tourney played with no sitter.
Oh, btw, all thinking Leaguers realize there are sometimes 6 sitters at 1 table & NONE at another

Remedy:

Well, let's think about it. How about taking the Medical Doctors approach & 1st state that "No action should be taken that harms the patient(player)[& here let me also include the PokerStars Franchise]", So, perhaps the software could simply boot the sitters (let's define 'sitter' as a player who has made NO actions whatsoever in the 1st 15 minutes of tourney play. If even 1 action has been made(such as self folding before or after his time bank has been entered) then he would be deemed to be a 'player'.
So, with that in mind, all sitters could be auto-expelled before the start of the 3rd round of blinds, tables adjusted, & play continued. These sitters could then be taken out as a group(all listed as 1st out of the tourney) but with no loss of league points. The tournament statistics could then be readjusted to show the 'true' entries & league points awarded based on the lessened field or, not adjusted & the whole field elevated to reflect the entire group of sitters were simply out in the 1st hand.
NOW, if this seems too Radical an approach, I ask you to remember that my ideas are not radical as i was among the most fervent of Leaguers pleading for equality of tournament starting times after the disastrous decisions made in that area at the start of the new 'Premier' League. Once again i implore the powers-that-be that this is not a Fortune 100 company with its' feet stuck in concrete and unable to make timely decisions. I fully understand the pain involved actually making decisions for some executives & if you feel that this line of action is 'just too radical', allow me to give you another, less noticeable, way to bring more equity to the tourney.
Simply, let the software determine who are 'sitters' and have them allocated so that no table has more than the avg number of sitters per table; (for example, 1,000 sitters in a 10,000 player tournament with 9 players per table would mean there would be no more than 1 sitter per table & NO tables where there were NO sitters(as soon as there were equal tables & sitters and of course as 5,000 players fell from the tourney then there would be no more than 2 sitters at a table & NO tables where there were NO sitters.(a bit of 'fuzzy math' involved there)
These are just some thoughts off the top of my head & I invite any other thoughtful Leaguers to chime in with refinements to anything said heretofore.
Well, that's nice to get off my chest....
But, do not for one second think I'm through with what i perceive as positive changes for the PSO League formats.
Tomorrow, if i have time, I want to address some meaningful changes that could be made in the way the moderators could immediately handle the issue of multiple infractions to the player chat rules;
soon after that, the issue of stopping entirely & immediately the chat of blatant 'begging' that often happens in the 'Premier' & other MTTs at the Final Table or anytime as far as that goes.

sleepy
....................
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 04:01 PM
(#2)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
I don't understand why you don't like free chips at your table?

I presume you mean sitter as in "Sitting out"

I don't personally mind it as that's one less person to get lucky and knock me out.

They have paid the same fee you have to get they starting stack and what they do or don't do at the table is then their decision.

Personally I have made the decision to sit out of the first hour of an MTT as i would be out and miss the late Reg period, i finish 2nd so for me that hour blinding down was a worthwhile decision

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by Grade b; Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 04:04 PM..
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 05:07 PM
(#3)
RiverFlat's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 833
I have played in the past and believe it was full-tilt where if u the player sits-out an entire blind level You automatically are removed from the game . This would solve alot of players sitting out or having to play against no-one

Last edited by RiverFlat; Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 05:58 PM..
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 08:19 PM
(#4)
dukpond44's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 41
Seating of tourney tables is random. Are you suggesting that Poker Stars should manipulate the seating? That would drive me away from the site as I would consider that cheating.
 
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Wed Aug 07, 2013, 11:59 PM
(#5)
BEGR_Sasha's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
sitter can always win the minimum prize of the month leader board, just register games on time everyday, that's what I'm doing, and when game pops up, I just close it, and with my calculator proved, I know that I can get the easy $2.5 money on the end of the month, this so-call skill league is skilless, and I'm just tired to play it, as the thread I made http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...I-turn-it-down

I just wanna get the free cup of coffee from OSL


Double Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 02:48 AM
(#6)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi Grade B,
This topic is specifically directed at the the "Open" & concerns the the strategy necessary to attain the highest levels of the leaderboard.
As i go over your performance as of this year, I See:
......Date..............Place......points
08/08/2013.....34602.....1489.42
05/29/2013.....00632.....2095.86
04/30/2013.....01294.....1941.80
02/23/2013.....55849.....1499.39
How's that strategy doing for U ?

Many great posts have been published here detailing a very easy route to 2400-2500-2600.
I take it you don't care for the upper leaderboard strategies &
"They have paid the same fee you have to get they starting stack and what they do or don't do at the table is then their decision." & that is your decision
Thanks 4 the input,
sleepy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
I don't understand why you don't like free chips at your table?

I presume you mean sitter as in "Sitting out"

I don't personally mind it as that's one less person to get lucky and knock me out.


They have paid the same fee you have to get they starting stack and what they do or don't do at the table is then their decision.

Personally I have made the decision to sit out of the first hour of an MTT as i would be out and miss the late Reg period, i finish 2nd so for me that hour blinding down was a worthwhile decision

Grade b

Last edited by sleepyolman; Thu Aug 08, 2013 at 02:57 AM..
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 03:27 AM
(#7)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi RiverFlat,

I know U as a pretty fair "Premier" Player & see u used the "Open" to get your ticket
......Date..........Place......points

02/28/2013.....00347.....2194.6
01/31/2013.....02922.....1777.95
These scores also indicate u didn't use the best strategy while U were playing there.
As this is a "school league", If u ever find yourself needing to Qualify for the "P" again, u can do it in a week by using the best strategies.
Thanks 4 the comment,
sleepy

And Yes, PS does the same thing with sitters in 'ring games' but not entirely on point
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverFlat View Post
I have played in the past and believe it was full-tilt where if u the player sits-out an entire blind level You automatically are removed from the game . This would solve a lot of players sitting out or having to play against no-one
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 03:37 AM
(#8)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
HELLO DUCKPOND,
PS continuously manipulates the seating in the "O" & "P" and all other MTTs I've played in. If they didn't, each original table would end up with 1 player and the tourney would never finish.
You'll need to rethink that line of thought completely or leave online poker.
Thanks for the comment,
sleepy


Quote:
Originally Posted by dukpond44 View Post
Seating of tourney tables is random. Are you suggesting that Poker Stars should manipulate the seating? That would drive me away from the site as I would consider that cheating.
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 03:50 AM
(#9)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
HI Sasha,
Yes, i guess the "skill" needed to qualify for the "P" is a player be able to remember to register.
Really a pity and probably not what the 'Dean of Education' had in mind
Thank U for the comment & a HUGE thanks for the calculator,
sleepy

ps: It's hard to believe U didn't make the cut in the "P" last month.
I bet U have some real Horror Stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEGR_Sasha View Post
sitter can always win the minimum prize of the month leader board, just register games on time everyday, that's what I'm doing, and when game pops up, I just close it, and with my calculator proved, I know that I can get the easy $2.5 money on the end of the month, this so-call skill league is skilless, and I'm just tired to play it, as the thread I made http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...I-turn-it-down

I just wanna get the free cup of coffee from OSL

Last edited by sleepyolman; Thu Aug 08, 2013 at 03:55 AM..
 
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Beggers be gone - Thu Aug 08, 2013, 06:37 AM
(#10)
MR TOMLIN NZ's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 1
I agree with sleepy about the sitters.as for the beggers there is no place in our sport for beggers we work hard at our game and make the right moves and plays to cash in and make the money and so should they shame on them (BEAT IT!)
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 07:17 AM
(#11)
Nasty_Hand's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
BronzeStar
Poker is a game of outplaying your opponent, and what that means differs per situation. In the Open league it just means folding just about everything. There simply is no other way to outplay someone who is all-in preflop every hand.

This is my first month going for promotion to the premier, and this simple strategy of basically only playing AA and KK has easily put me in a position to do just that. I wish all tournaments had this type of field.

Btw, thanks for the calculator....BIG help!
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 11:19 AM
(#12)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyolman View Post
Hi Grade B,
This topic is specifically directed at the the "Open" & concerns the the strategy necessary to attain the highest levels of the leaderboard.
As i go over your performance as of this year, I See:
......Date..............Place......points
08/08/2013.....34602.....1489.42
05/29/2013.....00632.....2095.86
04/30/2013.....01294.....1941.80
02/23/2013.....55849.....1499.39
How's that strategy doing for U ?

Many great posts have been published here detailing a very easy route to 2400-2500-2600.
I take it you don't care for the upper leaderboard strategies &
"They have paid the same fee you have to get they starting stack and what they do or don't do at the table is then their decision." & that is your decision
Thanks 4 the input,
sleepy
It worked quite well for me and i don't think that removing the sitters is going to magically improve my play. I was thinking of the open league too. This year i have mostly played the games as games rather than last year, when i would use my time back every and to get deep. The set up is what it is and its up to us to adapt to the situation.

My favorite game OL last year involved 8 sitters and me hoping the table would not break too soon.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by Grade b; Thu Aug 08, 2013 at 01:21 PM.. Reason: added a thought
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 11:47 AM
(#13)
dukpond44's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyolman View Post
HELLO DUCKPOND,
PS continuously manipulates the seating in the "O" & "P" and all other MTTs I've played in. If they didn't, each original table would end up with 1 player and the tourney would never finish.
You'll need to rethink that line of thought completely or leave online poker.
Thanks for the comment,
sleepy

To a certain extent u may be correct, but moving players around to fill gaps left by knock outs I think is a little different than moving them around on tables that are already full. What I really want to say is that sitters are not a problem for me. They are just taking advantage of a high attrition rate caused by the bad play of others. Sitters cannot take advantage of the clock however and are just dead money. I once had a table where all but me were sitting out. In a short time I was able to accumulate quite a nice stack at their expense allowing me a good deep run later on. This may have been unfair to other tables, but that is part of the luck of tournaments and u cannot eliminate all of the luck in poker. Thanks for setting me straight on my original comment, it may have been a little off the mark.
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 02:00 PM
(#14)
tammielad's Avatar
Since: May 2012
Posts: 8
I think you should relax a little sleepy and just accept sitters as another (annoying) kink to what is just a downright crazy game. I agree they are a pain as my blinds get eaten quicker with a whole bunch at my table (pray for the day when I get 8 ).

Stars policy is quite clear on sitters in general, they have obviously reviewed it in light of complaints and are not likely to change it - they have no problem with players sitting out un-raked hands.

You're right it's luck of the draw as to how many sitters you are going to experience in a game (I would hope the table management is geared to balancing them across the tables already?) - but the same could be said of maniacs who won't let you enter a pot for 3 orbits for less than your stack - 4 or 5 of those at your table are going to greatly affect your tournament experience also. (Arghh AA cracked in hand 5 today by 2 guys who had shoved 5 hands in row J9o & 87o taking it with trips, -25 points from my hard earned 2000, but I'll be back )

Hopefully in the long term the number of decent scoring players will go up and the day will come when just sitting out a ton matches in month won't cut it to make the top 2k.. Doesn't have to happen too quickly for me though
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 04:58 PM
(#15)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi tammielad,
well, perhaps i am off track on this one and as not one single 'uppercrust' player has dropped by, i guess i will not push this into a spot where the real-powers that-be would be likely to review it.
The anniversary is coming up & I just thought a yearly review of such things is normal in business strategies & had hoped a large # of folk might possibly want to actually turn it into a 'Skill' based tourney.
I find i am wrong so far.
Sadly, it is not the 1st time
It just seems so unfair to not evenly distribute the MF Sitters
Sleepy


Quote:
Originally Posted by tammielad View Post
I think you should relax a little sleepy and just accept sitters as another (annoying) kink to what is just a downright crazy game. I agree they are a pain as my blinds get eaten quicker with a whole bunch at my table (pray for the day when I get 8 ).

Stars policy is quite clear on sitters in general, they have obviously reviewed it in light of complaints and are not likely to change it - they have no problem with players sitting out un-raked hands.

You're right it's luck of the draw as to how many sitters you are going to experience in a game (I would hope the table management is geared to balancing them across the tables already?) - but the same could be said of maniacs who won't let you enter a pot for 3 orbits for less than your stack - 4 or 5 of those at your table are going to greatly affect your tournament experience also. (Arghh AA cracked in hand 5 today by 2 guys who had shoved 5 hands in row J9o & 87o taking it with trips, -25 points from my hard earned 2000, but I'll be back )

Hopefully in the long term the number of decent scoring players will go up and the day will come when just sitting out a ton matches in month won't cut it to make the top 2k.. Doesn't have to happen too quickly for me though
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 05:17 PM
(#16)
sleepyolman's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 389
Hi Grade B,
Well, I'm on Vacation & can't play in $$ tourneys as the sig comes from USA
(See comment to tamm...)
I'll be back for the full month on Sept & trust me,
there's only 20 spots in the open i'll be looking at.
I'm not saying i'll not accept the EZ $5, $7.50, or $10 but when I see a field 98% full of non-players,
I can't help but think $1,500 is within reach.
GL @ the Tables
sleepy


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grade b View Post
It worked quite well for me and i don't think that removing the sitters is going to magically improve my play. I was thinking of the open league too. This year i have mostly played the games as games rather than last year, when i would use my time back every and to get deep. The set up is what it is and its up to us to adapt to the situation.

My favorite game OL last year involved 8 sitters and me hoping the table would not break too soon.

Grade b
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 05:21 PM
(#17)
Nasty_Hand's Avatar
Since: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
BronzeStar
I disagree with you that this tournament doesn't require skill or has any educational value. For starters, it teaches hand selection and how to be patient (skills that most beginners lack). You always hear people at the micros say that no one respects their raises, they get called everytime, etc, etc. Maybe this tournament serves to drive home the point that you cannot bluff a station, etc. They can learn that a simple, tight, ABC strategy can do miracles in the micros.

I see the sitters as a way of taking this strategy to the extreme. Because of the maniacs going all-in every hand and the huge point deductions you get if you partake in their game and lose, a good strategy is to not play any hand in the first hour. And if you're not going to play any hand, you might as well sit out.

The point is no matter what they do, freerolls like this will always have maniacs, and so the sitters will follow.
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 05:45 PM
(#18)
TOO2COO's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,882
(Super-Moderator)
Hello Sleepy,

At this time we have no plans to make any changes to the Skill leagues.

When it comes to these things always best to send your ideas and suggestions to the following email ideas@mypokerschoolonline.com 


 
Thanks for being part of PSO, and Best of Luck at the Tables 
 
Brian

**Closed**


Super-Moderator

7 Time Bracelet Winner



 

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