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SPR

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SPR - Thu Aug 08, 2013, 05:42 PM
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mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I been reading alot of books lately and i cant get my head around this SPR section i read up on it suggests that you should make your preflop raises a size that gives you a good SPR for that hand your playing.

So for drawing hands we want a high SPR so it says go for 3x raise and for stuff like AA KK we want to make low SPR which i knew all this anyway but its saying that we should just open raise bigger and make the SPR we want for our hand so say i got 100bb with AKo it says you should raise to 8x on the button with the intention of getting called by the loose players in the blinds giving you an SPR of roughly 4.1

It all sounds well and good until you think about how peoples range are going to be tighter against you bigger raises pre and your gonna get owned when you have AQ and hit TPTK and your committed and get crushed by AK.

The whole point of this SPR is to commit when you hit but i thought that its seems like a bad idea to commit AQ, has anyone tried this? Is it a good idea or something to avoid it seems high variance to me when you go for big raises pre with KQo just to get the SPR you want i would like to think the only time you want to raise big with KQ or 3 bet is when you know a player will call with worse.
 
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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 06:02 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
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Here are two videos that Dave has in the archives on the subject. They're both well worth watching.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...-Ratios-Part-1

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...-Ratios-Part-2

John (JWK24)


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Thu Aug 08, 2013, 06:46 PM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
I recently read Miller/Mehta/Flynn's 'Professional NLH vol.1' and the whole book is about planning your hand according to SPR and commitment decisions. John's already given you the links to Dave's videos on SPR, but the commitment decisions class is also useful.

If you read the same book, then I can understand your problem, because I think much of the "advice" isn't really practical in online games. In a live game where there are often multiple limpers or callers, 6x or 7x opens or iso-raises are relatively common. That makes it somewhat easier to get close to your "target SPR". If you opened for 7bb with KQ on a standard 2NL table online, however, you'd hardly ever get called by worse. :/
For that reason, I don't really have a specific target SPR when I open a pot. With the weaker parts of my range (e.g. on the button) a smaller raise like 2.5x means I'll have a reasonably high SPR when playing suited connectors, while with QQ+ I'll sometimes choose a larger open size (especially in early position, when I think a loose player is likely to call) in order to make commitment easier post-flop. The main way I use SPR is to make decisions once I've seen the flop. In a 3-bet pot, commitment with an overpair or TPTK is straightforward enough, but in a single-raised pot, I often have an SPR that is close to the dreaded 13. In spots like those, I'll often take a pot-controlling line on the turn, depending on the tendencies of villains.
I think the main points to consider are to decide whether to commit to a hand based on the villain you're facing. If he's a calling station, then if you flop top pair with AQ, you can say to yourself "I will commit to getting my money in by going pot-pot-shove". If villain is a nittier player, then you'll take a different line, perhaps trying to get two small streets of value. If villain is short-stacked, then the SPR will naturally be lower, so you should be more likely to commit with one pair. I'm not sure if I mentioned SPR directly, but I talked about deviating from "standard" pre-flop raise sizes on my blog.

It would be great if you could open for 18bb with AA and then shove every flop and get paid, but that's clearly not practical, so all you can do is slightly increase or decrease your bet-sizes according to reads/stats, hand strength and position. And rememeber the basic advice: If you think you have the best hand, bet the most that you think will get called by worse. If you're bluffing, bet the smallest amount that you expect to get the job done.


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Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Thu Aug 08, 2013 at 06:49 PM..
 
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Fri Aug 09, 2013, 01:46 PM
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mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Il have a look at those vids JWK cheers and yeah Arty thats the book i got it from and i just thought this is exploitable especially in zoom but then i read this.

You limp AQ with the intention of the world class player isolating you and the previous callers, so they all call his raise (cant remember the size but it big enough and with 3 people in the pot to know AQ is dominated) and then he says that you can just jam it all in or fold because the SPR is no good.

Is this serious are we trying to play for 2 pair plus here lol thats a bad move with a lot of hands especially when it said the loose callers were bad players.

I have learnt a thing or two from this book though, the one main thing was playing a draw but the rest was stuff i already knew apart from this preflop raise size thing i have to dis agree with.

I need a book thats on hand reading and hand reading only if there is one.
 
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Fri Aug 09, 2013, 01:56 PM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
I was completely thrown by a couple of the examples in 'PNLH'. In a 100bb cash game, I would never limp a hand like AQ in order to set up a good target SPR. You simply can't be sure of what action will occur if you limp, and for me the best line to take is to make a standard raise, and then make a commitment plan once I know exactly how many players see the flop, and can judge whether I'm likely to have the best hand.

I've not read it, but Ed Miller also wrote 'How To Read Hands At No-Limit Hold'em' and that got some pretty good reviews.


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Fri Aug 09, 2013, 02:14 PM
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mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Yeah il have a look now im sure my hand reading is good enough now to move up actually but i just want something so i have more confidence in my hand reading.
 

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