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25NL FR Zoom: flopped open ended str flush draw

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25NL FR Zoom: flopped open ended str flush draw - Tue Aug 20, 2013, 07:22 AM
(#1)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
This hand comes from 25NL FR Zoom. I was playing on my phone without my HUD.... Judging by the villain's stack size though, I didn't give him credit for being a strong player, but expected him to be a bit spewy.

What do you think the optimal line is here after getting check-raised?

I considered calling the flop raise hoping he would fire another bullet on the turn. However, I thought the guy was more or less committed after check-raising with his short stack.

Moreover, even though I have a very strong draw. I don't have a made hand, and I may not be drawing to the nut flush. Also, if the villain is holding an overpair or tptk and is afraid of the flush or straight draws, he might not put more in the pot if a diamond or any other scare card comes on the turn.

Finally, since the villain was so short, I made a smaller than normal 3-bet. I wanted him to believe he had some 4-bet fold equity.


Any thoughts on this line would be appreciated

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 09:32 AM
(#2)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
I considered calling the flop raise hoping he would fire another bullet on the turn. However, I thought the guy was more or less committed after check-raising with his short stack.
I dont really think either of these apply too much. If we have identified this one as a weak player then I dont think he is c/r because board hits his range and is likely to follow through on turn with air hands. If it is a poor player they have likely caught some piece and will wrongly be pleased to get it in on flop. I dont see why he would be committed after the check raise, he should be able to get away from some hands but if he is weak then he probably wont.

Given this player check raises the flop, then I feel like it is more likely would also 3 bet pre with overpairs and some of the Adxd, Kdxd hands. So would definitely be looking to get it in on flop either slightly ahead or with great equity.

I dont think your 3bet would give any but the worst player the feeling of 4 bet shove fold equity. That said I think a lot of his range is happier getting it in on flop rather than after a blank or diamond on turn.

My 2 cents mainly based on assumption that we have a weak player here.

Are u back playing 25NLFRZoom, if so welcome back
 
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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:44 AM
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TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Hi Greg,

I agree, I would always just 3b jam here. The small 3b looks stronger tbh and he doesn't have nearly enough behind to think you are folding to a 4b imo after showing this kind of strength. Like Profess said, if he's weak he's likely to stack most hands he c/r with. We're almost a 2-1 favorite over a hand like A9, and better than 2-1 over naked draws, so just get the money in now. Plus, if he's making some random move with something like QJ, and decides to try and peel a T for the small 3b, he won't release when he hits a Q or J either, but now we'll be a dog with 1 card to come. One other small factor when playing on mobile.. if you're not on a stable wifi connection you run the risk of disconnecting. I have tried PM zoom from my phone via mobile with a 4G connection, and it can get spotty. If he 4b shoves here and you time out somehow, it's a pretty big equity disaster. Once you're all in that's no longer a concern.

Cliff notes: No reason to get cute here, just jam imo.


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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 11:56 AM
(#4)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profess Awe View Post
I dont really think either of these apply too much. If we have identified this one as a weak player then I dont think he is c/r because board hits his range and is likely to follow through on turn with air hands. If it is a poor player they have likely caught some piece and will wrongly be pleased to get it in on flop. I dont see why he would be committed after the check raise, he should be able to get away from some hands but if he is weak then he probably wont.

Given this player check raises the flop, then I feel like it is more likely would also 3 bet pre with overpairs and some of the Adxd, Kdxd hands. So would definitely be looking to get it in on flop either slightly ahead or with great equity.

I dont think your 3bet would give any but the worst player the feeling of 4 bet shove fold equity. That said I think a lot of his range is happier getting it in on flop rather than after a blank or diamond on turn.

My 2 cents mainly based on assumption that we have a weak player here.

Are u back playing 25NLFRZoom, if so welcome back
Thanks for your 2 cents Profess Awe!

I was surprized when the guy folded to my raise, and that made me want to take a second look at the hand. I misread or misranged him somewhere. Also, at the time, I felt like I had hit the jackpot with this flop. I have top pair and an open ended straight flush draw. That's a lot of outs! Then I started second guessing myself thinking of all the possible hands that could beat me.


Thanks for the warm welcome! Yes, I am slowly getting back to 25NL FR Zoom. Although, at the moment I am jumping all over the place. During the last week I've played just about everything from 2NL to 100NL 6-Max Zoom and even some Courchevel. Note 25NL has been the most consistant and profitable. It feels good

Greg (Roland GTX)
 
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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:01 PM
(#5)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Hi Greg,

I agree, I would always just 3b jam here. The small 3b looks stronger tbh and he doesn't have nearly enough behind to think you are folding to a 4b imo after showing this kind of strength. Like Profess said, if he's weak he's likely to stack most hands he c/r with. We're almost a 2-1 favorite over a hand like A9, and better than 2-1 over naked draws, so just get the money in now. Plus, if he's making some random move with something like QJ, and decides to try and peel a T for the small 3b, he won't release when he hits a Q or J either, but now we'll be a dog with 1 card to come. One other small factor when playing on mobile.. if you're not on a stable wifi connection you run the risk of disconnecting. I have tried PM zoom from my phone via mobile with a 4G connection, and it can get spotty. If he 4b shoves here and you time out somehow, it's a pretty big equity disaster. Once you're all in that's no longer a concern.

Cliff notes: No reason to get cute here, just jam imo.
Thanks Dave!

"Keep it simple!" I ought to be able to remember that

Regarding being mobile. I was stationary (ie sitting at work). I haven't experienced any problems when staying put. Trying to play on the train has been impossible due to connection issues though.

Greg
 
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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:06 PM
(#6)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
I would always just 3b jam here.
+ 1
 
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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:27 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,517
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
Regarding being mobile. I was stationary (ie sitting at work). I haven't experienced any problems when staying put. Trying to play on the train has been impossible due to connection issues though.
That's where I tried it, on the train. It was too spotty there, so I went back to Turbo Racing League and OFC for my mobile train gaming.


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