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Note Taking

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Note Taking - Tue Aug 20, 2013, 03:50 PM
(#1)
klem70's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
I am trying to make notes on my zoom Hands I have played.

I find it very time consuming, but I know in the end with good notes I will make good decision in some instances.

So the time spent doing the notes, will help in the long run.

Just looking to see if someone in the past has made a good thread on how to take notes.

I have PT4 do for me, but if i make my own Notes the information I gain is so much better. I prefer my notes other PT4 if i had time to write them all.
 
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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 04:52 PM
(#2)
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
Hi klem,

Dave did once do a class on Effective Note Taking, not sure it's exactly what you're looking for but you, or others, may find it of interest. Also Chris had a class on Taking Notes on Regs that might help too.

And I'm sure if you ask nicely other members might like to say how they take notes. What they take notes on, how they write it down, any tips and tricks they have such as short hand for different things.

Interesting topic as it's something we all do differently.



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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 05:07 PM
(#3)
TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Is this sort of what you were looking for? There's a Zoom-specific tip at the end of checking the lobby to see how many tables the villain is playing (somebody playing 4-tables is more likely to be a reg, while somebody playing only 1 might tend to be more of a recreational player?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Primer on Effective Note-Taking

So this was a concept that was discussed in the following Live Training class, and all hands that I reference come from this same video: Typecasting Zoom


Intro

So in this video, the argument was made that learning to take notes effectively is an important a component to being a winning player as we move up stakes as all the other skills we'll need to acquire, like say hand-reading, playing position, handling 3bet pots, etc. And that therefore, it's a practice we should start developing early on, so that as the quality of play increases as we climb through the ranks, the level of sophistication of our observations will increase as well (and so will our notes).

Like at 2nl, people have so many obvious leaks in their game, it's possible to turn a profit just by basically playing the cards in front of us in a semi-decent manner.

By 5nl, HUD stats and notes start to become more important as we start adapting our play to the villain. But everybody - including ourselves - tends to still have quite a few leaks, so that it's still not super hard to turn a profit.

But by 25nl, apparently there'll be people who aren't going to be making that many mistakes. And not only that, but apparently there's regs who are very observant too, who will notice player habits that they can/will use to maximize their profits. And if we aren't able to do the same, it sounds like we'll be at a real disadvantage.


How does an effective note-taking system look/work?

So apparently by 25nl, what's supposed to be happening is that when we read our own note, the next time we encounter that person, we'll have a plan of action in our mind for how we can best profit against them. If that's not happening, our note-taking isn't really working as effectively as it could be.

Example 1. Typecasting Zoom @35:00

Hero:
Pot: $1.60

Flop:

Villain: donks out for $0.75
Hero: reraises to $2.00
Villain: folds

SAMPLE NOTE: "leads to fold on T8x fd"
ACTION PLAN: we're supposed to know from that to raise his leads as a bluff next time


Example 2. Typecasting Zoom @37:30

Hero:
Pot: $1.10

Flop:

Villain: donks out for $0.75
Hero: reraises to $2.25
Villain: calls
(rest of the hand isn't important)

SAMPLE NOTE: led + called rr w A9 on 762 nfd
ACTION PLAN: we're supposed to know to raise his leads for value next time


Example 3. Typecasting Zoom @39:30

Hero:
Pot: $1.75

Board:

Hero: wins the pot
Villain: had

NOTE: we shouldn't be taking notes of straightforward play, because there's nothing to be learned



But what if we hardly use our notes as it is? Isn't it going to be a waste of time?

That's supposedly the red flag that our note-taking system isn't working the way it should. Like with the hand I posted in post #23, where I didn't add enough info for my note to give me guidance on how to best extract value from that villain.

So this might seem counterintuitive, but the solution to not finding our notes very useful would be to put MORE time and effort into improving the efficacy of our note-taking system rather than less. Which isn't to say that the notes have to be more voluminous - the goal is for them to be effective.


So how do we go about making an effective note?

So, to take a meaningful and useful note, we need to try and look for why the villain acted that way. Which means noticing the betting/raising/calling action, and the board texture.

Example. Typecasting Zoom @35:00 (the 88 hand from above)

Things we should mentally take note of before making our note:

- we raised 88
- opponent called in bb
- then led out on a T8x board with flush draw
- and then decided to fold to a raise

It's super important that we know to add the board texture, and why that's meaningful. Because that was key to why the villain likely acted the way he did - so if he ever donks out again on a board with no Broadway cards, the plan of action will be to raise him as a bluff, knowing he'll likely fold


Other Ways to Get Info - Replayer, Lobby (for #tables)

Apparently some people are looking at the replayer for hands from the hand history list, to get showdown info on players. Since seeing hole cards is so much more valuable than just trying to guess what sort of range of hands person might have been holding.

And so for Zoom, it's also supposed to be a good idea to get into the habit of checking the number of tables people are playing, so that we can start seeing how that info can help aid us in our decision-making. In addition, somebody playing with less than a 100bb stack can also be a sign that the villain's more of a recreational player.


Conclusion

I think that's it Wanted to start with the Zoom specific video, and next I plan on watching Dave's vid that grade b gave me the link to. If anybody has any other cool ideas, please feel free to add them to this thread - that'd be awesome!!

I remember hearing Sandtrap and Croyd (Oliver) mention that they take notes at the end of every session, but they play 4-tables. Since I only play 2, it's easy enough for me to just press pause and take notes at the table.

Hope this helps
 
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Tue Aug 20, 2013, 05:15 PM
(#4)
klem70's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
Ty Fayden for the 2 videos. Will watch them hopefully tomorrow.

Shorthand Tips will save loads of time in the end. Thinking off having most notes saved, for each part of the hand, on spreadsheet for quick copying and pasting. then only need to do a few quick adjustments if needed.

Ty TrustySam I normally only look at hands where i could see the hole cards. Think I need to check hands out where villains fold after raising on a street. So hopefully will got notes where they bluffing. I also look at hands that i didn't have money in. Good info can be gained from them as well.

Last edited by klem70; Tue Aug 20, 2013 at 06:03 PM..
 
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Sat Aug 24, 2013, 04:44 AM
(#5)
klem70's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
Since my last post I have played three very small Zoom sessions and after looking at PT4 made my Notes for all three.

In cut back loads on what I take, but think I got enough in there after collecting more notes on Players to put them to good use.

I like to Know what a player Limps, Calls, Raises, 3 bets and goes all in or calls all in Pre Flop.

See if they C-bet with a pair or a good draw.

What they Re raise with on later street. They tend to have the goods. Caught a few bluffing though

Seen some of my bad plays and seen lots on others. Once I see 3/4 bad plays they are going green.

At the moment looking at all that had a showdown. I know what cards all players there had. No Second guessing players here.


I am still curious with good players, what hands they pick to make Notes on. The Big Pot, where they were involved in or ones that see with PT4.
 
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Sat Aug 24, 2013, 12:57 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,316
When I played Zoom, I would go through all the hands the went to showdown after the session. It would take a very long time, but there is a goldmine of information if you analyse the hands well. The notes I take are based on unconventional play. If I see someone 3-bets KK and stacks off pre, it's not noteworthy, because it's standard. I want to take notes on "weird" things someone does, so I'll have stuff like "Stacks off TPGK on dry flop" or "Slowplays set on wet board". Primarily, you want to take notes that allow you to exploit someone. If you know that someone open-limps small pairs (and no other hands) then you can iso-raise his limps and then c-bet 100% of flops. If he check-raises, you know he hit a set.
Notes on bet-sizing tells can also be useful. You might spot someone c-bets half pot with air, but bets 100% of pot with TPTK.
Another thing to look for is how someone plays draws. Most players at 2NL/5NL are passive with draws, but it's very useful to know if someone usually raises with flush/straight draws on the flop. If your note says "raises FD", then you can feel good about continuing with TPTK on a two-tone board, while you would feel less good if you got raised by the nitty set-miner that doesn't raise with flush draws.


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Sat Aug 24, 2013, 02:27 PM
(#7)
klem70's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
Ty Arty

That is what I have spent a lot time in last few days doing Had 900 hands to look at. I have got notes on all hands that went to Showdown.

It is very time consuming, but in long run will reap benefits from it.

On some it is what they Limp or called in with. On some if they play draws aggressive. Sort been looking for what you posted.

Need to add again bet size when he has goods to compare when on draw or with air. Will from now
 

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