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5 NL Zoom - 99 (Btn) Vs Unknown Villain in strange hand

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5 NL Zoom - 99 (Btn) Vs Unknown Villain in strange hand - Sat Aug 31, 2013, 03:41 PM
(#1)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar


Background:

My stats: VPIP 14.3; PFR 10.05; 3bet 3.13 [Hands 172].
No information on Villain [Hand 2].

Pre-flop: I called min R on the Btn with 99 opting not to 3bet as I had no information on Villain & play hand (IP).

Flop: Villain made a min Cbet OTF, which seemed v weak; so I opted to make a pot size bet with my set to protect against f/ & s/draws & build a pot. Villain called...

Turn: Great turn card giving me a FH. Again Villain made a min Cbet, so I raised & Villain called. At this stage; I put Villain on JJ+ AJ+, poss KQs QJs [... discounting Tx, TT as I would have expected a RR].

River: F/ & s/draws didn't get there, but AA; AT has just made a higher FH. Villain again made a min Cbet OTR. Given Villain was prepared to call off 2 raises I very nearly called the min Cbet OTR... as thought I had just been rivered, but decided to go with my hand and made a pot size bet [in hindsight thought I should have made it 3/4 pot]. Villain immediately shoved all in. I wasn't folding for an additional $0.44 so called, but was a little perplexed?

Questions:

1). Do you agree with my analysis & what would you put Villain on?
2). Do you agree with the way I played the hand / bet sizing?
3). What would you do differently?

Welcome your thoughts / comments?

BR Tony [aka Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Sat Aug 31, 2013 at 06:37 PM..
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 05:45 AM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
1) Analysis is fine. It's hard to range these fish because they can literally have anything
2) Raise more OTT so the river sizing isn't as large relative to the pot
3) Again, raise more OTT, and shove river. Not point leaving $0.30 on the table when you have the nuts.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 05:56 AM
(#3)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
1) Yeap and I would put villain on ace high flush draw, maybe Tx sometimes.
2) Yeah seems pretty standard, although like birday said, raising more would be even more profitable, since weak players don't really care about bet sizing.
3) I would 3bet preflop to make the pot bigger and have a more clear view on his range.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 09:45 AM
(#4)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamblingProp View Post

1) Yeap and I would put villain on ace high flush draw, maybe Tx sometimes.
2) Yeah seems pretty standard, although like birday said, raising more would be even more profitable, since weak players don't really care about bet sizing.
3) I would 3bet preflop to make the pot bigger and have a more clear view on his range.
Hi GP [& birdayy],

Thanks for your feedback... If you 3bet pre-flop & face a 4bet shove... Are you folding or calling with 99 given stack sizes etc?

What size bet would you make OTT as I made it 3/4 pot?

Finally, I've seen Villains min raise / min bet with KK & AA at 2NL & 5NL Zoom [& then shove OTR].

Look forward to your comments.

BR Tony [aka Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 10:32 AM..
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 12:08 PM
(#5)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
3betting mid pairs overplays your hand IMO. We should try to have more of a polarized 3betting range, so we have a clear decision if we are 4b.

As you said, if we are 4b we are in a nasty spot, so flatting > 3betting.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 01:21 PM
(#6)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
I would just call OTR, He bet small 2 times and called raise 2 times, I think he might have monster there and at least AT or TT or AA . Reads are very important in this spot.

Last edited by Shichi-77; Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 01:32 PM..
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 01:47 PM
(#7)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I am definitely folding to a 4bet.
His range would be QQ+,AK so no reason to continue if he 4bets.
And I disagree on him having a monster, he wouldn't risk losing so much value on the river by betting 1 BB.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 02:17 PM
(#8)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamblingProp View Post
I am definitely folding to a 4bet. His range would be QQ+,AK so no reason to continue if he 4bets.
Agreed... Easy fold pre-flop Vs 4bet shove. I may 3bet with 99 Vs LP raise / steal. [Again opponent dependent].

Quote:
Originally Posted by GamblingProp View Post
And I disagree on him having a monster, he wouldn't risk losing so much value on the river by betting 1 BB.
Agreed... Whilst Villain took a strange line, I'm not sure I could give him credit for a monster hand e.g. AA; TT; AT (3 winning combos) Vs lots of losing 2 pair Ax combos; JJ; QQ; KK [poss 44] & busted draws, hence my decision to go with my hand.

If Villain had open shoved OTR this would give more credence to a 'monster' hand, however I think I would still have to look him up given the amount already invested.

BR Tony [aka Prodigy237]


Showdown to follow shortly

Last edited by Prodigy237; Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 02:46 PM..
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 03:42 PM
(#9)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Quote:
Originally Posted by GamblingProp View Post
I am definitely folding to a 4bet.
His range would be QQ+,AK so no reason to continue if he 4bets.
And I disagree on him having a monster, he wouldn't risk losing so much value on the river by betting 1 BB.
so how do you think what hand did he have? what hand would he play that way? why he min bet called raise 2 times and made min bet 3rd time? and which hand would pay river shove after such agression from hero's side? after hero raised his min bet 2 times it's predictable hero will shove OTR. That's why is very important to have notes and reads on opponent who you play on stack with.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 03:46 PM
(#10)
Kemmio's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 22
This is such a hard spot to analyze without reads. One thing I am sure about is that he's a fish. But still there are different types of fish.
He could have lots of hands in this spot: TP/MP/Set/Monster(some fish like to play "deceptive"). But against his range overall we are a huge favorite.

To sum up- I would play this hand like you did with one exception, as birdayy already mentioned, I would bet bigger OTT.

And now I am dying to know what he had.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 04:49 PM
(#11)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi Prodigy,

wp, I think.
I would not 3bet 99 either without reads. Raising the flop and big is mandatory for value and charge draws. OTT, I kind of think contrary, I don't want them to fold, if they have a draw then let them hang themselves when they hit so maybe I would raise smaller to get called.

I cannot think of any hand that beat us given his line on all streets; TP+ should be betting more OTF, his betsizing indicates an A4 type of hand or a draw. Whatever they had, they played their hand very poorly imo.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 05:24 PM
(#12)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
I cannot think of any hand that beat us given his line on all streets; TP+ should be betting more OTF, his betsizing indicates an A4 type of hand or a draw. Whatever they had, they played their hand very poorly imo.
Hi George,

Thank you & Great call... which is why you're the Hand Analyzer.

Here's how the hand played out.



BR Tony [aka Prodigy237]
 

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