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5NL Zoom (6 max) AKo in 3bet pot with TPTK Vs SB shove OTR

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5NL Zoom (6 max) AKo in 3bet pot with TPTK Vs SB shove OTR - Sun Sep 01, 2013, 08:09 AM
(#1)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Background:

My stats: VPIP 12.95; PFR 9.43; 3bet 3.33 [Hands 165]
No Information on Villain

Pre-flop:

Standard pre-flop R with AKo. Villain 3bet. I opted to simply call to balance my range & play hand [IP].

Flop

Villain checks. I opted to check behind [...as would have to fold to x/r].

Turn:

Villain Cbets OTT. I called [... as wasn't convinced I was ahead with TPTK] & re-evaluate OTR?

River:

Villain shoved OTR. I folded.

Questions:

1). What range would you put villain on?
2). As played... Good fold with TPTK?
3). What would you do differently?

Welcome your comments / feedback?

BR Tony [aka Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Sun Sep 01, 2013 at 08:16 AM..
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 08:54 AM
(#2)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Looks like a bluff to me i doubt hes shoving a flush on the river, he probably 3 bets JJ+ and AKs and i think i might be being abit generous there with his stats. He checks the flop so i doubt he has KK and we have a K as well then he shoves the river so he don't have a nut flush either, actually the best flush he can have is QJd because we have an Ad and Kd hit the turn and i doubt thats even in his range so unless he is the type to slow play KK on this flop i think he has a bluff but then again he might just over value AK or turning his hand into a bluff.

Or my range for him 3betting from the blinds is way off, i would probably look him up anyway the only thing i dont like is his small 3 bet pre every time i see this its either a monster like KK or AA and some players i seen doing it with small pairs.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 10:12 AM
(#3)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your comments... It wasn't the made flush or f/draw that concerned me; I gave him credit for AA; KK (poss AK; 66) as the overbet OTR screamed o/pair or FH.

I crunched the numbers and given bloated pot & o/bet OTR I was only getting odds of approx. 1.4% (42%) & whilst I factored in bluffs decided it was too close to call.

Cheers Tony
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 12:11 PM
(#4)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Judging by his 3b sizing we can assume he is a fish.

Checking back the flop is fine given we probably have the best hand.

I'd actually be inclined to raise his turn bet for value, and then bet/fold river.

As played, i'd be tempted to look him up, but I don't think we are good enough to call when fish bomb shove the river (it's usually pretty strong from what i've seen). It's not impossible for him to bet the turn with a FD and then shove when he makes it. He could also have turned up with a set at some point and decided to just shove the river.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 04:36 PM
(#5)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Hi Prodigy,

I think there is more value in 4betting here. Villain 3bets to a weird size which like birdayy said looks very fishy; generally I see people do that with Ax and small to medium PPs. They could also be inducing with AA although counter-intuitive they think that a small 3bet will add money to the pot and not force their opponents to fold. Also when we don't have information on villains, I tend to take standard lines and my standard line would be to 4bet/get it in with AK.
With more information I like the 3bet call with AK IP, just because we can use the information for post flop decisions.

As played, when villain checks the flop I think we can discounts PPs from their range unless they are slow playing 66 or TT. I like checking back the flop too because our hand has SD value and when we check back we keep all their weaker Ax hands in.

I think the hand boils down to the river; when they over shove a paired board with a backdoor flush I think they have one pair beat a lot. So good fold imo.
 
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Sun Sep 01, 2013, 05:53 PM
(#6)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
Hi Prodigy,

I think there is more value in 4betting here. Villain 3bets to a weird size which like birdayy said looks very fishy; generally I see people do that with Ax and small to medium PPs. They could also be inducing with AA although counter-intuitive they think that a small 3bet will add money to the pot and not force their opponents to fold. Also when we don't have information on villains, I tend to take standard lines and my standard line would be to 4bet/get it in with AK.
With more information I like the 3bet call with AK IP, just because we can use the information for post flop decisions.

As played, when villain checks the flop I think we can discounts PPs from their range unless they are slow playing 66 or TT. I like checking back the flop too because our hand has SD value and when we check back we keep all their weaker Ax hands in.

I think the hand boils down to the river; when they over shove a paired board with a backdoor flush I think they have one pair beat a lot. So good fold imo.
Hi George [& birdayy],

Thank you for your analysis. Interestingly, I was watching the Felix videos featuring some of your hands at 5NL & 10NL Zoom earlier today and one thing I picked up on was his / your approach when faced with a 3bet against Unknown Villains with hands like AKo. I tend to do the exact opposite unless I have reads / information on Villains, so may look to introduce this to my game.

As for unusual 3bet sizing... I have noticed this quite a lot at 5NL Zoom (6 max) & noted it for several ppl & it seems to be either AA; KK; AK or mid pairs 88; 99; TT etc.

Thanks again for your comments / feedback... much appreciated.

BR Tony [aka Prodigy237]
 

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