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Overcards - 6 outs?

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Overcards - 6 outs? - Mon Sep 02, 2013, 02:17 AM
(#1)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi all,

Just wondering what's the most profitable play to play overcards?

For instance we have AQ on the button. We call the preflop raiser in mp2, and on the flop it is heads-up.

We totally miss the flop, but also believe that villain has also likely missed the flop as well, but maybe has a pair.

T72 rainbow

Villain makes a continuation beyond about 2/3 pot.

What's the best way to play hands like this where we only 6 outs, but think we are likely ahead, or could be ahead if we hit our low six outer.

Is the best play either to fold or raise (2.5 times) here on the flop, instead of calling in position - taking the initiative?

What's the best way to play our 6 outers in general?

Cheers,

pullin1988
 
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Mon Sep 02, 2013, 02:40 AM
(#2)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I would most of the times either fold or call, I think raising there indicates a lot more weakness than strength.
And if we raise, we most of the times have to bet again on the turn and maybe on the river also, which makes the pot huge.
I am not saying you should never raise with overcards, because that would be a mistake.
But depending on how good or bad, tight or loose your opponents are, you should adjust and respond with the most profitable move.
So yeah, there is no golden rule for playing overcards.
 
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Mon Sep 02, 2013, 04:13 AM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi pullin1988

In general, at 2NL, I would estimate that calling c-bets with two overcards and no other draws will cost us more money (be a bigger leak) than we are potentially giving up by folding questionable spots like this. I would want a decent read before continuing with the hand. My readless line would be to fold.

What type of read are we looking for, well, I agree with GamblingProp. Choosing the best line in these spots is a bit situation dependant. For example, how wide a range does the villain open with? Is he loose, tight etc?

How often does the villain c-bet? If he c-bets 100% of the time, then we know he is capable of c-betting with missed hands. If he rarely c-bets, then it is more likely he is only c-betting when he has a made hand.

Can the villain fold? Some players will c-bet the flop with most of their range, then check-fold all their missed hands on the turn if they get called. They take a chance on the flop, then give up. Against this type of player, I may call the flop with the intention of leading out with a bet on the turn which I expect him to fold to most of the time.

What buyin level/game type are we talking about? I tend to bluff, semi-bluff less at 2NL and 5NL than at higher levels. It is tougher to bluff at 2NL because many players can't fold a made hand. This same tendency allows us to more easily get paid off when we value bet our strong made hands.

With a hand as strong as AQ, 3-betting preflop can be an option as well.

As played, I tend to err on the side of caution. Keep the pot small. We don't want to create a situation with a big pot where all we are holding is a bluff catcher. Without a read on the villain, I would probably fold this spot, especially facing a 75% pot bet, most of the time. If you call, what is your plan for the turn? most of the time, you won't catch an A or Q. Do you call another bet? Do we fold?

I hope this helps

Roland GTX
 
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Mon Sep 02, 2013, 10:01 AM
(#4)
Sandtrap777's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,310
I would also had:

Is he a regular?
How many tables is he playing?
What's his stack size and what's yours?
Are you in profit?
Can you afford to spew a few chips?
Do you have a plan of action?

Basically, IT DEPENDS
 
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Mon Sep 02, 2013, 10:28 AM
(#5)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
To add to Sandtrap's "IT DEPENDS", what is your image and is the villain aware? If you're known to float, it's unlikely they will check if you call. If you mostly play fit or fold, a raise should take down the pot by an habitual c-bettor.

These are only a few of the possibilities. But knowing more about your opponent than they know about you is one great skill to master.

GOOD DECISIONS!!!
 
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Mon Sep 02, 2013, 12:38 PM
(#6)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
At 2NL against a relative unknown, I think folding is better than calling, which is better than raising. I'd float sometimes, but only if I know villain is a one-and-done merchant (which many are at 2NL). The big problem with calling is that you could be reverse dominated. If villain has AT and the turn comes an ace, you're losing a big pot, not winning a small one.
I'd much rather have 76s in this spot (and not just because it made a pair). If AQ wasn't ahead of villain's range pre-flop, then there's no harm in folding pre, as you'll just find yourself in spots like this very often. With "big cards" I want to be the pre-flop aggressor, not the caller. "Speculating" with AQ isn't really a winning play.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Mon Sep 02, 2013, 08:05 PM
(#7)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
What am I missing? How do we know it's 2NL?
 
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Tue Sep 03, 2013, 03:15 AM
(#8)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,


Thanks everyone for your input.

Trumpinjoe: I didn't say, but arty knows that I only play 2nl at the moment while I try and build up my bankroll so that I can have a stab at a higher
Stake.

The game in question is zoom full ring, for which I have only just started playing - minimal stats on everyone pretty much.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Tue Sep 03, 2013, 12:42 PM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
You got your HUD working then?
I rarely play Zoom, but I might do so some 2NL FR this week, as I need some example hands for my blog. If I see you at the table, don't bust me! :P


Bracelet Winner
 
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Tue Sep 03, 2013, 01:54 PM
(#10)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Yeah the hud is working.

I had to select the file pokerstars.exe from the c drive and programs folder, etc, to run as administrator and then always use this location to open the site. If I try to open using the desktop icon then it doesn't work - found out on hem2 forums there is a bug in the software.

Arty, I sure if I see you there, your taking me to value town for sure.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 06:15 AM
(#11)
RobinQQQ's Avatar
Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 115
...

Last edited by RobinQQQ; Thu Sep 12, 2013 at 06:19 AM.. Reason: whoops someone already said it.
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 06:37 AM
(#12)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by pullin1988 View Post
Yeah the hud is working.

I had to select the file pokerstars.exe from the c drive and programs folder, etc, to run as administrator and then always use this location to open the site. If I try to open using the desktop icon then it doesn't work - found out on hem2 forums there is a bug in the software.

Arty, I sure if I see you there, your taking me to value town for sure.

Cheers,

Pullin
Hi pullin! Im glad you got your HUD working. Regarding the desktop icon try the following:

Delete the current (non-functioning) desktop icon. Then right click the pokerstars.exe file and create a new desktop shortcut. This will hopefully fix this issue for you

GL!
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 06:50 AM
(#13)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers Roland,

I will give that a try.

regards,

pullin
 

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