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good pot odds call, OmahaHI?

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good pot odds call, OmahaHI? - Fri Nov 29, 2002, 11:18 AM
(#1)
Deleted user
I don’t think my pre-flop call was great, but I was wondering about the post flop play and odds.
Starting hand #11074468 starting 5000tc I have an avg. stack Apx. 4600tc, blinds 50/100

>>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
57sauce dealt down 6h Tc Qh Ac
SB posts the small blind $50
BB posts the big blind $100
UTG folds
MR A calls $100
MR B calls $100
MR C folds
57sauce calls $100
MR D raises $300 to $400
MR E folds
SB folds
BB calls $300
Mr A calls $300
MR B calls $300
57sauce calls $300
Was it a mistake calling here?,
>>>DEALING FLOP<<< [ Ad 9c Kc ]
BB bets $200
MR A calls $200
MR B raises $2,025 to $2,225 and is all-in
57sauce called time
57sauce calls $2,225
Did I have the correct odds here? I counted 13 outs here 9 for clubs and the 4 Jacks comes out to be 1:3? And 2225 to win 4475 is 1:2? Is that how you figure pot odds?
MR D folds
BB folds
MR A folds
MR B shows cards 9s 7c 3c As
57sauce shows cards Qh Tc Ac 6h
>>>DEALING TURN<<< [ 4h ]
>>>DEALING RIVER<<< [ 2h ]
MR B wins $6,900
MR B won with two pair, aces over nines

Thanks for the help,
--Matt--
 
Old
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Fri Nov 29, 2002, 12:42 PM
(#2)
Deleted user
Hey Matt,

I have no problem with your calling the raise pre-flop with that hand, only because there were multiple callers in the pot and you were getting good odds (300 to win 1700, or about 6 to 1), I would almost always call with 6 to 1 odds, three face double suited.

On the flop, the bettor puts everyone to a decision for all his chips with two pair - personally, I hate his play here - he doesn't even have top two pair, there is a flush draw and all kinds of backdoor straight draws - I think he was desperate because he was shortstacked. After your call of the preflop raise, you have 4200 left. If you call, you will have just a little under 2000 left. You do have 13 outs without knowing any of the other cards. 13 outs twice makes you about a 1.5 to 1 dog in this situation (45 cards left: 26 possible winners, it would be 44:13 on the river, or a little over 3:1) Because he is all in, you only worry about the initial odds and not those on the river. There should be 4700 in the pot before the decision is to you (If I did the math right). So you are getting just a little over 2:1 odds if you call. It's a close situation. If it was 3:1 it would be a no brainer for me (say, for example, that you knew someone else was going to call then it wouls be 2225 to win 7K or a little over 3:1). Not sure if I'm going to throw all my chips in the middle as a 1.5 to 1 dog for 2:1 odds, and since you don't know what the other initial players are going to do, I'd tend to fold here.

Hope this helps, and I'd be interested to see what Chris (BlackAces), Glenn (rosita) and other PLO players have to say about this.

Hazy
 
Old
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Fri Nov 29, 2002, 01:50 PM
(#3)
Deleted user
I'd be more interested to find out what Mr. D had than anything else, truth be told...very rarely here will you see a preflop raiser not hit a flop of AK9. My guess is probably TT98 or something.

Anyway, back to the question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 57sauce
>>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
57sauce dealt down 6h Tc Qh Ac
...
57sauce calls $100
MR D raises $300 to $400
...
57sauce calls $300
Was it a mistake calling here?
I have no problem with the call here. You have a reasonably coordinated hand, and I'd pay 300 more to try and catch a good flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 57sauce
>>>DEALING FLOP<<< [ Ad 9c Kc ]
BB bets $200
MR A calls $200
MR B raises $2,025 to $2,225 and is all-in
57sauce called time
57sauce calls $2,225
Did I have the correct odds here? I counted 13 outs here 9 for clubs and the 4 Jacks comes out to be 1:3? And 2225 to win 4475 is 1:2? Is that how you figure pot odds?
You've calculated them correctly on the surface. Problem is, given the betting so far, at least three, and up to nine, of the cards left in the deck will kill you dead whether you make the draw or not. Betting at this point SCREAMS either two pair or set. So really, you're never as much of a favourite as you think.

Edit: Oh, and you double counted the jack of clubs, so it's 12 outs, not 13.

Other thing is, if the bettor has the QT to go along with their two pair or set, you've effectively lost two of your outs (tie hand cuts your pot odds in half for your four-out straight draw). Not an incredibly likely scenario, but something to keep in mind.

OTHER other thing is, what was everyone calling a preflop raise with? Odds are pretty good that not all of the jacks are live anyway. Plus, all-in player may have clubs to go along with the two pair or set, making your club draw less likely to hit.

And finally, preflop raiser is yet to act, and on a flop of AK9, you can almost guarantee raiser will be jamming here. (I was shocked to see that fold, to tell the truth.)

All of which leads me to say, no, given all of the circumstances, I would not have called.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 57sauce
MR B shows cards 9s 7c 3c As
57sauce shows cards Qh Tc Ac 6h
Holy total fish, Batman. 8O Another reason not to call: You'll get this guy eventually when you're a HUGE favourite, I'm sure of it.

Chris
 

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