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my biggest leak

my biggest leak - Sun Sep 08, 2013, 05:23 PM
I AM XXXX's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 30
I have posted a few hand with tough folds or calls most are close
I am making in a real effort to find folds but dont want to go to far the other way folding to much

I have a problem folding to all in jams on the flop with a good one pair hand i dont give the players credit for having a hand and find myself talking myself into calling as xflixx said in hes grinding it up it really hard to know what the players at 2 nl and 5 nl are thinking

here is 3 hands to show what i mean

hand 1

player 1

hands = 22
vpip = 60
pfr = 25

not many hands but looks very fishy

when he jamed

i think is he playing a set or 2 pair like this
maybe he geting out of line with a hand like KQ

so i called huge spew

hand 2

player 5

hands = 1.2k
vpip = 17
pfr = 15
re raise flop = 7
all his other stats are very ABC tag

his he jaming with 8 or full house maybe he has a over pair and talk myself into calling

but he is so ABC this should be an easy fold

hand 3

player 1

hands = 13
vpip = 55
pfr = 36
small sample but look fishy

this time a was good but he could have had any 2 pair or set this should have been a fold without any notes

i have not requested evaluation but would like the views of players of the smaller stakes who see this kind of spot more often

trainers and hand analyzer feel free to add you views

Last edited by I AM XXXX; Sun Sep 08, 2013 at 05:31 PM..
Sun Sep 08, 2013, 05:44 PM
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
It's my leak too but now I understand one pair isn't enough to play on 100bb + stack and trying to let small pots to go. and very important is to know your opponent,I'm trying not to play big pots without monsters against unknowns.
Sun Sep 08, 2013, 09:31 PM
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
H1 is a fold when he jams for 200bb.

Rest are fine.
Mon Sep 09, 2013, 01:22 AM
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
I agree on 1st fold.
Standard stuff though, they won't always be at the top of their range.

Last edited by GamblingProp; Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 01:26 AM..
Mon Sep 09, 2013, 08:36 AM
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336

Hand 1

When Villain stacks off for 200BB+ OTF we are almost always behind [... a minimum of 2P, set etc], & whilst I have seen Villains do this with worse hands than TPTK I favour folding in this spot.

Hand 2

You would have to put him on this exact hand to find a fold here & therefore I am calling [100% of the time] as Villain will do same with o/pairs KK; QQ [poss JJ]... Unlucky.

Hand 3

I don't like the 3bet / squeeze play [without reads] in m/w pot & secondly $0.68 is too small compared with size of the pot $0.47 [IMO], so I think you need to make it $0.85 or maybe even $0.95 / $1.05 & be prepared to get it in p/f [... although accept we maybe behind] or fold to 4bet shove.

As played, Villain flatted p/f, so think we can discount premium hands AA, KK, QQ, which leaves us with JJ, TT (poss 99, 88), Ax hands & poss suited b/w cards IP. Whilst TT & 88 could be in Villain's range... I'm not sure they would be shoving these hands OTF on dry board & risk missing value, therefore this leaves 2p combos AT, A8, T8, which seem unlikely & v loose against 3bet p/f [& with SB still to act behind], so think I would be leaning towards a call OTF... Again Unlucky.


Tony [aka Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Mon Sep 09, 2013 at 09:38 AM..
Mon Sep 09, 2013, 10:34 AM
Fadyen's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,917
In all of these situations the villains are repping very big hands and it's up to you to figure out whether they're up to no good or if story checks out, as they say.

Hand 1; In this case the villain has a pretty wide range being on the button so when he makes such a big flop raise he's saying he has better than one pair. In this case there's nothing to tell us he can't have two pair or even a set, although I'd expect to see sets less often with this line. So I think we can find a fold as gut wrenching as it is. (If I wasn't on my A-game I go broke here too btw)

Hand 2; I think this one is just a cooler. I like how you played it and I think we have to make the call here as only 66 or 88 are beating us. I probably wouldn't feel great about it but he could have an over pair enough of the time to mean we have to make the call.

Hand 3; Here I'm kind of unsure if I take the same line pre-flop to iso the "fish". But against this kind of play I'm happy to get it in all day long as with those stat/that villain type he can be value owning himself a lot and in fact he is in this case. Just an unlucky river for you.

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Mon Sep 09, 2013, 11:28 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Totally disagree on hand 2, this is a fold all day long for me. ABC Tag always has us beat here, the ABC Tag move with a JJ type hand is calling on this board, not jamming.

Hand 1 easy fold.

Hand 3 easy call. We have created a low stack to pot ratio (2.6) and flop top/top, should be able to profitably commit now to the villains shove because he will be willing to shove with worse aces, or semi-bluff draws like J9 or QJ with this much money already in the middle. This hand should be basic if we are planning our hand... When we 3b squeeze if we get called, the SPR will be low so when we flop top pair, we are committed.

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Mon Sep 09, 2013, 11:41 AM
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Originally Posted by TheLangolier View Post
Totally disagree on hand 2, this is a fold all day long for me. ABC Tag always has us beat here, the ABC Tag move with a JJ type hand is calling on this board, not jamming.
A couple thoughts to add on hand 2, relative to some of the stuff said in this thread...

Q: don't we have to put him specifically on 66 or 88 to make the fold?
A: Yes, basically. Which sounds absurd on the surface, but it's really not. One of the reasons ABC TAGs are hugely exploitable to good players is that they play their hands very face up and in predictable manners. They don't jam the flop with JJ/TT because they are concerned they're beat. While they *might* jam this flop with KK or AA specifically, they can't ever hold those hands because another predictable play they make is automatically 4b/get it in preflop with KK/AA. So while we normally can't define an opponents range this precisely, this isn't a normal situation, and if the read of ABC TAG is spot on, he's got it.

Q: If we are folding even AA here isn't that exploitable? Couldn't an opponent just jam any 2 cards profitably since we have basically no calling range?
A: Yes, it is, and yes, they could. No worries, ABC TAG is not exploiting us.

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