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To play for stacks or to not play for stacks

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To play for stacks or to not play for stacks - Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:59 AM
(#1)
MrFlopes's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 152
Hi, guys.

I'm struggling to find wich hands i can play for stacks pre-flop accordingly to the blinds i have. Can someone give me a general rule (i know it can be very specifique) so i can base my decisions? What hands are not a mistake to stack off when i have:

75-50 BBs
50-30 BBs
20-10 BBs
 
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Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:06 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
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Hi MrFlopes!

For an initial shove, calling a bet, 3-bet... they will all be different.

In a std tourney, I'm not open-shoving unless I'm at 10BB or under. For a turbo, I'll shove at 15-18BB.

Shoving anything more just does one thing to me.. get me value-owned, which means that all worse hands will fold and only better hands will call me.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


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Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:20 PM
(#3)
MrFlopes's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 152
JWK24, i forgot to mention it. It's for when you have to call a 3bet for all of your stack. I struggle in these spots.

Btw: i open-shove in turbos when i'm at 10BB or under. I follow this rule from Grayson 'Spacegravy' Physioc videos here on PokerSchool. Is this a mistake or style-dependent?
 
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Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:37 PM
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for calling a 3-bet, it's basically villain dependent.

John (JWK24)


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Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:42 PM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,363
I'm inclined to agree with JWK and say this is largely villain-dependent, but I also consider positions (it helps to narrow a villain's range) and - in tourneys - the structure. (In turbos, my stack off range is wider, and I'll also be more aggressive as the bubble approaches).

That being said, I'd rarely get all in pre-flop with worse than KK if the effective stack is over 30bb. (I 4-bet jammed QQ for 27bb the other day, and that felt like too much, even though I got it in good).
For 20bb, I might 3-bet jam JJ+/AK. For 15bb, it's more like 99+/AJs+/AQ+, but bet-size tells and stats/notes on villains have a significant effect on my decision.
For 10bb, I'll jam over a minraise with a much wider range, especially if I'm in the blinds facing an "obvious" steal.

If I raised and got shoved on, then I have a tight calling range. Villains at the $1.50 level generally don't play the push-fold game very effectively (by which I mean they don't shove light anywhere near often enough). If they ship 15bb over a raise, they usually have a big hand, so hands like AJ or 88 are usually going into the muck. If the shove is smaller, then you're usually priced in to call with anything that has decent equity.


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Mon Sep 16, 2013, 01:07 PM
(#6)
MrFlopes's Avatar
Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 152
Whoaa, i'm playing for stacks much to wider, then. Gonna try that tight approach and see if i get good results.

Thanks for the answers, guys.
 
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Mon Sep 16, 2013, 04:53 PM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,363
The crucial thing to recognise is that you can open-shove quite wide, but if someone has already entered the pot, or they re-raise you, your range for calling should be tightened up significantly.

Shoving wide is +EV. Calling shoves is not.

These concepts will doubtless pop up in Chewme's training starting in 5 minutes.


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Mon Sep 16, 2013, 06:27 PM
(#8)
Profess Awe's Avatar
Since: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
but I also consider positions (it helps to narrow a villain's range)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK24 View Post
for calling a 3-bet, it's basically villain dependent.
These are the critical ones for me, versus looser villain happily getting AK in with 50bb when we are both late position or blinds when I have AK. Tight villain opens under the gun and I am not looking to get QQ in with 50bb as likely crushed when it happens.
 

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