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0.25$ 45man SnG

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0.25$ 45man SnG - Thu Sep 12, 2013, 12:36 AM
(#1)
PokerAmigo77's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 50
Hi, guys!

Sorry, this hand was deleted by its owner

Villain was total maniac he had shoved like 20 times pre-flop in last 10 minutes with 30BB+ stack. Nobody wanted to play bingo and waited for good hand to finally bust him.. And earlier in tournament I saw him playing for all of his stack pre-flop with hands like J8, Q9.

Maybe I should have shoved pre-flop? But I´m pretty sure he wouldnt have folded.
Best would have been folding pre-flop and waiting for others to bust him probably..

All opinions are welcome
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 02:01 AM
(#2)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
If he was a total maniac you had two options preflop.
Either shove to his reraise, since he was going to call with a lot worse.
Or fold A7, waiting for a better spot.
I personally would fold to his reraise preflop.
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 02:08 AM
(#3)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
** moved to NLHE Tournament Hand Analysis**


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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 10:11 AM
(#4)
raccy's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 130
How many players were left at this point? Is this anywhere near the bubble? Players like that maniac will run into hands like AA and KK sooner or later or they'll just face another maniac but in either case someone will take them out. If this is near the bubble, maybe it doesn't have to be you with A7? Folding is cheap but once you called the 3-bet I wouldn't have played it any differently.
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 12:07 PM
(#5)
PokerAmigo77's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 50
11 players were left(7 get money). And yes, I was a bit angry after the hand at myself for going heads up with him.. But I don´t go for 7th place finish, I go for win and I would have been in the driving seat after this hand, but at the same time, I was chip leader anyway. And one reason why I went for it was that we were 5-handed.. A7 pretty good there.
One thing for sure, will not do this again when I´m chip leader


Thnx for advice
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 04:09 PM
(#6)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerAmigo77 View Post
11 players were left(7 get money). And yes, I was a bit angry after the hand at myself for going heads up with him.. But I don´t go for 7th place finish, I go for win and I would have been in the driving seat after this hand, but at the same time, I was chip leader anyway. And one reason why I went for it was that we were 5-handed.. A7 pretty good there.
One thing for sure, will not do this again when I´m chip leader


Thnx for advice
Played about 350 of these when US players could play here and ran around 45% ROI,so I have a pretty fair handle on them.

Just fold this pre-flop. Don't even bother with the initial raise,A7 is one of those hands where if you get action and hit one of your cards you really don't know where you are in the hand. Hit the ace---could be up against and ace with a better kicker. Hit the 7---hey,villain called (or 3-bet in this case) our 3x open,they could have an over pair.

Try to stay away from hands that get you into those kind of spots,because spots where your post flop plays become cloudy tend to be the spots where you'll spew the most money.

As to this exact scenario,with a spewtard on a stack and they'll be acting after us...even more reason to just lay a hand like a weak ace down from the get go. You KNOW they're going to come along and now you're stuck having to figure out what to do with your A7o when you miss the flop,which is what will happen most of the time.

When you see a player like this in these .25 45 and 90 man's...BE PATIENT. Here's the thing,you don't have to work to beat these type of players,they'll just hand the money over if you give them the chance. It won't always be you,many times one of the other players will get their gift of chips on their spewtard exit. When you're in a good spot,as you were here as the chip leader at this point and getting ready to see the FT and the hard money bubble,someone else getting their chips is fine. We still have one of,if not THE,biggest stack(s) and there's plenty of poker left to be played. You play enough of these you'll see an easy pattern develop---you will get more top 3's (where you want to be and then go for the brass ring)in games wherein you didn't have to do anything more than make less mistakes than the opps than you will see from games in which you played some dazzling kind of "hero" poker. You can lead a spwetard to the bubble,but you can't make them cash.

There are lots and lots of bad players in these .25'ers...do not try to beat bad players,make bad players try to beat YOU. There's a big difference between the two. If you're patient they'll make mistakes,LOTS OF THEM.

And you can get into spots with hands a lot stronger than A7 when they do so...IF you're patient.
 
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Thu Sep 12, 2013, 06:13 PM
(#7)
ahar010's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 614
Hi PokerAmigo77,

In this spot I think you should be opening a little smaller. 2.5x instead of 3x this late in the tournament maybe even smaller if the rest of the table has been.

A7o isn't a super strong hand we want to get it in with but definitely good enough for a raise 5 handed here. But really we'll be happier taking the blinds or winning the pot with a CBet than playing a pot to showdown.

When the opponent 3bets the size is too large compared to our stack to just call especially with a mediocre hand like this. I prefer 4bet allin or fold.

Being close to the bubble and chipleader already I think we adjust our raise size down to 2.5x here and just fold when this happens. Keep taking the easy pots on offer and wait for a better hand to stack the maniac with.

Better luck next time.
Andy




Quad Bracelet Winner

 
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Fri Sep 13, 2013, 12:28 AM
(#8)
PokerAmigo77's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 50
Thnx guys, very good posts and yeah like I said, I went for it because A7 5-handed is pretty good, but will never do it again. Last night had same kind of maniac on my left so I couldn´t play any normal poker, but I had big enough stack to wait until his out and won the tourney
 
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Fri Sep 13, 2013, 02:34 PM
(#9)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahar010 View Post
Hi PokerAmigo77,

In this spot I think you should be opening a little smaller. 2.5x instead of 3x this late in the tournament maybe even smaller if the rest of the table has been.

A7o isn't a super strong hand we want to get it in with but definitely good enough for a raise 5 handed here. But really we'll be happier taking the blinds or winning the pot with a CBet than playing a pot to showdown.

When the opponent 3bets the size is too large compared to our stack to just call especially with a mediocre hand like this. I prefer 4bet allin or fold.

Being close to the bubble and chipleader already I think we adjust our raise size down to 2.5x here and just fold when this happens. Keep taking the easy pots on offer and wait for a better hand to stack the maniac with.

Better luck next time.
Andy
100% agree with you Andy that at these blind stages we should be dialing our opening raises back to to 2.5x as a rule anyway as it makes it less costly to fold when we're up against a 3bet that we should be respecting.

Also agree that,in most cases,A7o 5-handed is OK to raise with from 2nd position (I'm personally not enamored of weak aces myself so would probably raise this hand less times than most would...a lot would go into player types left to act behind for me...).

MY problem is,and why I advocate that just folding the hand to start with is a better play here, is the nature of the game and the player type left to act.

We KNOW that villain 1 is going to at least call and very likely raise with a huge range of hands,and now we're stuck making a decision,probably for a very significant portion of our stack,with A7o. Now given this player's tendencies we could be and probably are in decent shape here. But with a little more patience the possibility is that we'll have a much better spot later. When a player is begging to spew their stack off I want bigger edges than A7o is likely to give me. Just a personal preference and another way to look at it.

Therefore I think even putting in the small opening raise in a spot where we're almost sure that we'll then be forced into a much more difficult decision with A7o may not be the best line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerAmigo77 View Post
Thnx guys, very good posts and yeah like I said, I went for it because A7 5-handed is pretty good, but will never do it again. Last night had same kind of maniac on my left so I couldn´t play any normal poker, but I had big enough stack to wait until his out and won the tourney
Congrats on the bink!!!

Don't say "never" in poker too much as you'll invariably end up contradicting yourself.

The irony is A7o has MORE value to raise 5-handed against a table with players who are going to be better than the spewer you showed in your post here,as better players know what a fold button is,so we can have an expectation of getting some free chips by stealing.

IF they do come over top of us,then it's much easier for us to then limit the loss and fold our A7o as since they're tighter we can more easily surmise that our A7o is most likely no good. And there's also the fact that in these .25 games when we raise to open there simply aren't a lot of players who EVER 3bet with anything less than QQ+ so we'll get called by players out of position a lot (lots of players in these simply refuse to fold when they've put money into the pots via the blinds...)and then they'll check the flop to us a ton and then fold to a c-bet.

I just found that if I have a major spewer (or 2...) on my table that it was usually best to tighten MY range up a lot and watch them hand their chips over when I do have a big hand. If someone else gets them instead and I'm on a playable stack anyway then that's OK too. If I'm short-stacked THEN I'm more inclined to try and get into a 1-on-1 spot for my stack with Mr. Crazy Loose Guy with a wider range for my part (any ace,lots of kings,any pair,broadways,a fair amount of suited and non-suited connectors) as being short I don need to gamble it up some.

Be flexible to the situations...stack sizes,player types and position of the players types in relation to you,where are we in the field when the bubble is close...these and many other factors are key in these multi-table SNG's.
 
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Fri Sep 13, 2013, 03:37 PM
(#10)
PokerAmigo77's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 50
First of all, thnx

I meant I will not go against crazy villain with A7o with chip lead. Of course I will play it against other type of opponents 5-handed

And btw thnx guys for that 2-2.5xBB raise tactic. I was just in front of a question what to do in middle-late stages of SnG with stack of around 20 big blinds. Not really a shoving stack, but little bit small to raise 3xBB and miss the flop.. Any thoughts on this?
 

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