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25nl zoom JJ 3bet pot vs wear line

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25nl zoom JJ 3bet pot vs wear line - Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:54 PM
(#1)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
vs 18/12 12.5% 3bet, only 17 hands

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Button ($23.78)
SB ($25.10)
BB ($28.59)
Hero (UTG) ($46.11)
MP ($11.30)
CO ($14)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J
Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Button calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $3, Hero calls $2.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($6.85) 5, 8, 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($6.85) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB raises to $9, Hero calls $5

River: ($24.85) K (2 players)
BB bets $11.75, Hero...

It would be super wear to me that he would check twice, with AA, KK, QQ, but decided to call and keep his range wide just in case, also if i shoved seemed difficult to be call by worst. is this ok?

River its disgusting, mainly because it very rare that somebody squeezes from bb to an UTG pfr light, so i expect AK to be on his range pretty often. On the other hand the price is good, dont know if its worth the call or not. I always debate myself on this spots where the bet its small that doesnt seems a bluff, but i have a good value hand for calling.

Last edited by CaRLoS_DZ87; Mon Sep 16, 2013 at 03:17 PM.. Reason: adding
 
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Mon Sep 16, 2013, 04:28 PM
(#2)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Im calling i seen these lines before though and they turn up with good hand sometimes, the other day i had a similar spot vs a shorty who checked AA on the same sort of flop after 3betting me from BB vs BU and checks flop and jams the turn, then another guy checked his flopped two pair on the flop and turn OOP and raises my turn bet and bets half pot on the river where i rivered two pair.

It seems to work pretty decent vs players reading the check check as weakness that have some sort of hand and end up calling down but the one guy i noted that does this was betting strong when he had nothing and slow playing un till someone bet when he had a real hand.
 
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Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:45 AM
(#3)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
Hello,
I think I would fold to his check raise OTT. Do you see any bluffs in his hand range ? and I don't think we beat anything OTR.
 
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Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:41 AM
(#4)
frosty012's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
It seems nitty but I actually prefer folding pre-flop in these spots a lot because you're often left to play the guessing game post-flop and you'll find yourself not knowing what to do a ton of the time. If the button was a fish I'd be calling to keep them in and if the BB does 3bet/squeeze a lot then I'd lean towards flatting as well so I'm not saying the flat is bad here-just something to consider.

As played, I might just stab at the flop when checked to. Often times the villain will just be giving up here and there aren't too many advantages to giving a free card if they are giving up with AK etc because it's not like we're going to get any value from those hands on later streets if they miss. Of course there's a chance that the villain might c/r this flop either as a bluff or with a value hand (AA,KK) so without any reads it's close I think and again, I certainly don't mind a check-back to avoid a potential c/r but I think a flop bet should at least be strongly considered.

After the villain checks the turn it's an easy bet. I'm with you here, I don't really give the villain credit for an overpair in this spot, although it is possible the villain is being "trappy/playing the hand very poorly." At this point, we're in a tough spot but I think that I'm calling and calling all non-A,K rivers.

Unfortunately, the river is very ugly for us and yes, the villain probably would bluff this card close to 100% of the time if they were completely bluffing the turn but I think it's far more likely for them to either show up with an overpair or have sucked out with AK. I'd be folding I think but it is close given the money we have invested...
 
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Tue Sep 17, 2013, 05:23 PM
(#5)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
Thanks everyone, i did call and he had AdKd. After reading your thoughts i think it should be an easy fold on the river vs unknown that so far has nitty stats, also because the bet size doesn't look like a bluff.
 
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Wed Sep 18, 2013, 11:34 AM
(#6)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Is that a good line to raise the turn as a bluff with AK?
 
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Wed Sep 18, 2013, 02:24 PM
(#7)
frosty012's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 26
Not really because you don't represent a lot of strength and in fact, your hand pretty much looks like AK. It sounds like the guy had AKdd though, so it was a semi-bluff. Still not great but it looks as though they'd be calling it off if they got shoved on...a much better line would be just to bet the flop and bet/shove the turn. I like the bet/bet line mainly because we could have fold equity on the flop and take it down right there, or we could still have some fold equity if we shoved the turn (I think we might have more fold equity with a bet-bet line than a check/check-raise line because as it's been noted, the c/cr line just looks full of it).
 

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