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A PSO play money final table pre-flop hand

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A PSO play money final table pre-flop hand - Tue Sep 17, 2013, 06:36 PM
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Tyirl's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 389




I have been throwing this hand around in my head for a few days (plenty of open space in there). I guess that, given the stack sizes, the standard thing to do here verses players that you have no history with is to make it 2 x and call a shove from any of the remaining players. Am I correct in that thought? I'm not 100% sure because of the big blind stack size. I don't think that I was ever folding personally, but I don't know if that is correct or not is what I mean. That is the first thing that I would appreciate insight on please.

At this table we do have history with the other players. At a minimum the final table up to this point worth of history. My feeling at the time was that the other players at the table probably thought that I was an insane maniac (at least partly true). I felt like someone was going to "stand up to me" soon. I had been walked five of the last seven times I was in the big blind (and won the other two of seven, although I didn't realize it was to this extent of being walked until I went back and looked at hand histories). The hand immediately prior to this hand it was folded to my button and I went all in due to the stack sizes of the two blinds and wasn't called.

With this hand we are on the cutoff with the likely table image of maniac and pocket tens. The big blind has 14 BBs, we have 39 BBs, and everyone else has less than 10 BBs. We actually have more chips than the rest of the table combined. I didn't want to double up the 14 BB stack (or anybody else really, but can't win if you don't play), but I thought their chips would look nice on my stack. My thought was that due to my prior activity it would look like I had a monster if I just made it 2 x and nobody would play unless they had a premium hand, but I also think that I can't fold TT to a 14 BB shove in this situation. My thought was that it would be more likely for me to end up against a hand like two over cards or even a lower pocket pair if I shoved than if I made it 2 x, plus it's unlikely that one of the three left to act would have a pair higher than tens. Even if they did have a pair higher than tens and shoved over my 2 x then I'm not folding, so I shoved pre-flop.

Hrrrmmm?? Am I wrong to shove in this situation? Would it be wrong to fold to a 14 BB shove if I made it 2 x here? If it is wrong to fold to the 14 BB shove, then how many BB would it have to be to fold to? I guess at some point they would 3bet instead of shoving, maybe even this person with 14 BB would have 3bet instead of shoving. What would be best then? I guess I would 4bet shove and hope to see two over cards.

Thanks so much for any help

Last edited by Tyirl; Tue Sep 17, 2013 at 06:40 PM..
 
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Tue Sep 17, 2013, 07:48 PM
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Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
The answer lies with "It depends..."

What range of hands do you think the BB will call with?

Does your hand beat enough of that range to make it worth while.

You can use Pokerstove to help play with the math.

If you are playing the hand anyway you could consider over betting preflop and put them all in if they want to play.

What would you do if you get a call for your and a shove on a AKx board or some other scary board.

14 bb's is a good reshove stack but a lot of those hands beat you (but is it enough of them?)

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

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Tue Sep 17, 2013, 09:07 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
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Hi Tyril!

I think there are two ways to go about this hand and it depends on the opp's image and your image. If my image is being a maniac, then I think that a shove of mine will get called lighter, which is exactly what I want with TT. The effective stack is only up to 14BB too, so this is a very viable play.

The other, which I would make if I think the opps would call a smaller bet, but not a shove, is to make a standard raise to 2.5BB+1BB for each limper or 2500. The only way I'd consider folding to a shove by one of them is if the largest stack is a total nit that would only 3-bet with better.

One play that I would not use is to min-raise and that's because it invites multiple opps into the pot and there are too many overcards that they can hit to beat me and I don't want to let them see one that does beat me for only a min-raise. Whenever I think I'm ahead, I want to do whatever I can to take the odds away from the opps and make them have a -EV call to try to outdraw me... I don't want to give them a +EV play, one where I expect to lose chips.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)

P.S. From being at your table, from an opp's perspective, I wouldn't put you in the maniac column. Loose, yes, but not maniac.


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Wed Sep 18, 2013, 12:51 PM
(#4)
Tyirl's Avatar
Since: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
Thanks for the replies, and yes they do help

To be perfectly honest I didn't give any thought to the idea that someone would just flat call. Thinking on it now it seems that if I had made it 2 x then the big blind would have possibly called with a lot of hands (not the specific hand that they ended up having unless they wanted to slow play), then I would have had to make a decision on the flop I guess. I also didn't consider making it 2.5 x at the time, but I think that it makes sense that it would be a better amount than 2 x in this situation.

Anyways, this was how the hand played out:







I guess it would have ended up getting all in pre or on the flop regardless of whatever my first action was.

This hand basically put me on tilt at the time though, lol. It wasn't anything that anybody did wrong, it was just the fact that the largest opponent showed up with AA at this moment. I just turned into a calling station and was lucky to still end up in second place (the tourney didn't last much longer after this). At this point I guess it was good that the big blind showed up with the hand they had. I doubt I would have given the hand much thought if they had 99 or something.

Last edited by Tyirl; Wed Sep 18, 2013 at 12:59 PM..
 
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Wed Sep 18, 2013, 02:40 PM
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JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,836
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Even if you raise and they flat (which would be a bad play for any of the opps against you as they'd be pot-committed by calling)... no way would I not get it in on the flop.

After losing the hand, you've still got a top 2 stack and are in great shape to try and win the tourney.

John (JWK24)


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