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10nl 6m zoom: 88 flop bottom set on wet board, multiway w lots of action, and I'm IP

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10nl 6m zoom: 88 flop bottom set on wet board, multiway w lots of action, and I'm IP - Thu Sep 19, 2013, 03:22 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Guess it would be standard in this spot to make a raise? How about the size of the raise ... should it maybe have been a little/lot larger/smaller?


Villains were both unknown 1-tablers (no HUD stats showing whatsoever).





Was worried about a better set, but was also wanting to keep both players in if mine was actually good - maybe would it have been better to try and narrow the field on such a wet board since the hand was multi-way?

Also, what to do if my raise were to have gotten re-raised?


Thanks for the help everybody!!

Last edited by TrustySam; Thu Sep 19, 2013 at 03:34 PM..
 
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Thu Sep 19, 2013, 06:25 PM
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GarethC23's Avatar
Since: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,273
Hey Sam

I actually don't like raising this flop. It is going to make some of your decisions easier, but some harder, and I think the overall profitability of just calling is harder, because the hands you drive out with a flop raise are often drawing dead to your hand. Also, if you are behind, you give yourself a chance to draw out on straights.

That kind of deception is going to get you paid off later, using your position.

Also as you mention, facing a flop three-bet here is a nauseating proposition as villain's ranges will be AdAx, oversets, top two pair, huge combination draws, and straights. Overall we aren't in fantastic shape versus that range. if we call we can put a lot of money in later in fantastic shape, or we might be able to easily get away when we are outdrawn.

As per the way the hand played out, checking it down is great. Maybe at 50nl I would shove the river as a bluff, but I don't think its that advisable here against unknowns at 10nl.

Heads-up or out of position I would always raise flop, c'est la vie. I think flatting might give us a few more opportunities later though.
 
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Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:03 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
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Was expecting everybody to advise me to bet bigger to try to get the money in the middle and charge draws, mostly based on the absolute strength of the hand I guess?

The big thing that concerned me was the size of the bet on the flop, and the fact that the pre-flop raiser didn't hesitate to call. And everytime I've been in a multi-way pot where there's been that much interest, it almost always wound up being a clash of the hands you mentioned - "AdAx, oversets, top two pair, huge combination draws, and straights."

Guess if a re-raise isn't likely to be met with a fold, and our hand could very well not be that strong by the turn, then yeah there would be a lot of benefit to waiting and seeing whether the turn completes any draws, so true. Is the fact that I was in position maybe also key, because then I could gauge the responses of the villains' before needing to act again?

The thought of shoving the river did cross my mind, but I was still worried about better sets - that might still call

So many interesting new angles to consider - really glad I submitted the question, thanks Gareth!!
 
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Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:09 PM
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TrustySam's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Is the fact that I was in position maybe also key, because then I could gauge the responses of the villains' before needing to act again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarethC23 View Post
Heads-up or out of position I would always raise flop
Oh, I misread the 'or' and thought it said 'and' ... k
 

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