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hand advice pls.

hand advice pls. - Sat Nov 30, 2002, 09:50 AM
Deleted user
hey all,
this is a hand i had in the no limit tourney today.

no limit- blinds 75/150- utg raises to 525- i call w/QQ-all fold to sb-bb folds
flop comes 6d-8s-3h-----sb goes all in for about 2500- utg calls-i take some time fiuguring utg for AK with the early raise so i call--turn comes Qs--utg checks to me, now i really have him on AK so i bet the pot which puts us both all in---riv. is 8o---sb showed 22--utg showed KK-i won with my fh.

my question is how i played this hand, i feel i played it wrong for not laying the qq down after the flop, my pre call i thought was ok cause i did have him on AK and QQ is a slight fav. i just didn't have the sb on anything but a steal but he could have made a set and i don't know if my call was good or not considering the tourney was in early rnds and i misread the utg completely.

any advice on how it could have been played better would be appreciated thx jokerAA
Sat Nov 30, 2002, 09:57 AM
Deleted user
Very very rarely have I recognized I was up against a set. It is just too hard to do in NLHE or even Limit.

Sometimes, if you know the player, and you get a read somehow you can guess it.

(Besides the times when the player reraised so substantially in NLHE, I just knew that somehow I was beat, but did not necessarily put them on a set) I have guessed a set and folded 4 times at PSO and have been right 2 times.

Most of the time I never considered the set and it beats my top pair or top two pair.

Anyone else on this topic?

Sat Nov 30, 2002, 12:37 PM
Deleted user
Looking back with perfect hindsight it looks like the major mistake in this hand was the KK's 1.5x BB raise preflop. KK and AA UTG is really hard to play effectively UTG to both maximize your winnings and at the same time not let everyone in for free. I can only assume the KK was hoping someone would raise preflop so that they could reraise. I believe the KK made a second mistake by not reraising all in on the flop following the SB's all in bet with a shorter stack. He should have isolated the SB here rather than giving you an easier decision to stay in.

With QQ I think I would have raised another 525 preflop to both isolate the UTG raiser and to get a better idea of his holdings. This would have most likely forced the 22 to fold and the KK to try and take the pot down preflop. If I had JJ or below I would have called as you did hoping to improve on the flop.
Sun Dec 01, 2002, 10:50 AM
Deleted user
Money appears too deep to re-raise preflop so good call. Re-raising generally removes your possibility of doubling through.

I'm guessing a little on the stack sizes, but on the flop it looks like you either have to move-in or fold. Calling is bad usually, due to relationship between depth of money and pot size should you just call.
Sun Dec 01, 2002, 11:08 AM
Deleted user
A set is one of the most profitable hands in holdem because it is so
hard to detect. When there is a possible straight or flush on the board, we can see that, but not a set.

As with many things in poker, it all depends....position, stack sizes, etc. But, generall it seems that the best way to play QQ is to move all in either before the flop, or after the flop. Most of the time I would do it before the flop.
All-In - No Way!! - Mon Dec 02, 2002, 02:34 PM
Deleted user
I Think all-in pre-flop with QQ in this situation is crazy - a big overplay.
- first, the raise is 3.5x BB - reasonable for a KK or AA trying to maximize profit.
- against these hands, QQ is a 4:1 dog!!
- even against AK, you're only 6:4 favorite!
- and there's no right way to play QQ, JJ, TT - the trouble pairs.

- I'd call as jokerAA did, and see the flop before deciding how to proceed. But carefully, in any case!!

On the flop, when SB raises all-in, AND the UTG just flat calls, I figure I'm beaten in at least one place!! I'm gone!

Same flop, 2 checks to me, I'm putting $500 or so in to test the waters! At this point, the UTG with KK should wake up and make a move!!
- if he does, I'm gone again!

If UTG is good enough to slow play till the turn, he's going to clean my clock - unless, as in this case, I make my hand!

My belief is that with QQ [or JJ or TT] I'll make $$ on the turn or river if I hit! And save big bucks if I miss - or someone else gets crazy!
- I'm extra cautious pre-flop & on the flop!!

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