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Bankroll builder - Tue Sep 24, 2013, 02:30 PM
(#1)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
Hi,

I'd like to take part in the Bankroll Builder promotion.


Cheers!
 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 01:25 AM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,809
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Welcome to PokerSchoolOnline!


Be sure to read THIS just to be be sure of exactly what's on offer with the Bankroll Builder promotion.


>>click here<< for a complete overview of what PSO has to offer.

We will advise within 24 hours as to whether or not you will be eligible for this promotion. Please check back this time tomorrow!


Thank you for being a member of www.pokerschoolonline.com and best of luck to you at the tables!


John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 01:39 AM
(#3)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi IBStryp,

You are eligible for the Bankroll Builder promotion, good job!
NB: Bookmark this page so that you'll find it easily in the future

First Step

Watch the following video and pay special attention to the tips on retrieving and saving your hand history from PokerStars. This will be important for the rest of your promotional journey.



After wacthing this please play some PLAY MONEY FULL-RING (9-Handed) tables at PokerStars and using the Hand Replayer post a hand here in this thread that you have questions about.
Here is a video on how to use the hand replayer.



Then when you have that done please have a go at the Poker Basics Course and pass the quiz at the end of the course.
So you have 3 steps to do to begin with and when you have all 3 done we will award you with your first bonus.

1) Watch the 'Getting Started' video
2) Post a 'PLAY MONEY' hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer
3) Pass the Poker Basic course.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 steps completed.

Best of Luck!


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 03:22 AM
(#4)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
My, a triple bracelet winner! I hope I can get your eyes on this thread once more.

To answer the both of you, I did read up on the Bankroll Builder promo before posting here.

I have played very little Hold Em but have played other card games like Rummy and Indian 3 card poker to name a few. I did read some web pages on NLHE basics and then some PSO. Seeing my league ranking shoot from 17k to 7k in 3 nights has gotten me hooked.

Sadly, I ran a few hands I lost through the hand calculator and realized some of my ideas on odds and outs are misplaced and sometimes outright wrong.

I plan to read all the basic and intermediate tutorials and wish to buy some books on Poker, any suggestions?


My plan was to start a bankroll without making a deposit, this is just an awesome opportunity to do just that. But I want to do it right, and I realize losing to my own calling of trash cards in tournaments that some reading is in order.

I will post here with the things asked of me soon.
Pretty soon actually

I'm stoked with NLHE, I look forward to learning and applying that in-game.
 
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Kc 9h win- table read or variance? - Wed Sep 25, 2013, 12:15 PM
(#5)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49


So I lost in the WCOOP freeroll again and decided to hit the play money tables to further this thread.

I had packed 3-4 hands on the same table earlier and "somehow decided" the other players had lower cards than me in the hand above. Did I just get lucky or is this me reading the table a bit and fate favoring variance? I bet and played the hand as if I had AK suited.


Here's another one a few games later which I won quite a bit using the same "gut feeling" backing strong-ish hands.




Please pardon any ignorance of reads if any, I am very very new to NLHE.
I will post again when I finish the assessment, which unfortunately offers little feedback besides telling me what lessons to revisit. I feel I'm getting the same answers wrong again, but can't figure out which one to seek clarification on.
 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 07:13 PM
(#6)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 12:42 AM
(#7)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Hi IBStryp! I'll take a look at the hands in post #5.

K9 is not a strong hand, and although it might be ahead of the hands held by the players that limp in, I prefer just checking my option in the big blind, as this hand is difficult to play profitably out of position. As played, you just minraised to 4 chips, and this is kind of pointless. Your raise isn't big enough to chase out speculative hands, so you're just bloating the pot with a trashy hand that you'll be playing out of position (OOP). The flop comes a dry T42 and I think it's OK to make a continuation bet, as villains probably missed this board. About half pot would be advised, as anything less will mean you get called too often, which is not what you want when you just have king high. Two players call, but you're lucky enough to make top pair on the turn. Now you can bet for value, but your bet size is way too small. Define your hand and get value by betting at least half pot. If you do that and get raised, you'll know your one pair is no good and you can fold. When you bet small, it's much harder to know if you're ahead or not. Both villains call and the river is another T. This is a bad card for you, as someone could definitely have made trips. Since your have some showdown value with your K, I would check-call here, which will ensure you see a cheap showdown. Betting is troublesome because you could get raised and have to fold, and you'd never know if you got bluffed off the best hand. That's part of the problem with being OOP. Villains get to see what you do first. Here, you're lucky. A villain just calls your small river bet, and apparently does so with a worse hand, because you drag the pot.

With AT, you have a stronger hand, but your position is worse this time: the small blind is the worst seat at the table. If you can see a cheap flop, it's fine to call a small raise, but I wouldn't go crazy with this hand, as it's often dominated by better aces. As played, one villain makes a huge raise to 106 and another goes all in for 606. The best play here is to fold. Villains would have to be crazy to put this many chips in the middle with worse hands than AT. As it turns out, they are crazy, because you call and they show 75s and T7s. When you get on to the real money tables, you won't see craziness like this very often. Most of the time if someone goes all in pre-flop, they will have AT crushed, with hands like JJ+ or AK. You dragged a very nice pot when you made two pairs this time, but be more careful with trouble hands like AT in future. It's actually a hand that doesn't make much (if any) money.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner
 
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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 04:17 PM
(#8)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Please let us know when you have passed your basics quiz, so we may proceed to the next step!

Joss


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 06:16 PM
(#9)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
Hi IBStryp! I'll take a look at the hands in post #5.

K9 is not a strong hand... snip***

The best play here is to fold. Villains would have to be crazy to put this many chips in the middle with worse hands than AT. As it turns out, they are crazy, because you call and they show 75s and T7s. When you get on to the real money tables, you won't see craziness like this very often. Most of the time if someone goes all in pre-flop, they will have AT crushed, with hands like JJ+ or AK. You dragged a very nice pot when you made two pairs this time, but be more careful with trouble hands like AT in future. It's actually a hand that doesn't make much (if any) money.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Arty
Arty, I can't tell you how gems like that are the kind of pointers I need to aid in weighing my hands in sticky situations.

I came in 110th in the WCOOP Main Event Freeroll Round 1 today and guess what I lost on
In fairness, this was my hand, he was checking to see if I had anything of value and my small chip stack helped me lose or I could've made him fold a long time ago. I did not expect him to be holding a 6 and raising like that.



Would you fold here? I would like some feedback on this.
Also, I feel the Open League tourney players are just fricking sharks unlike other freerolls I play on here, is this is simply the difference in standard of play?


I will finish the assessment and post here when done.
 
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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 10:54 PM
(#10)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting this hand for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at it for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once it's been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 11:32 PM
(#11)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Hi again IBStryp! I'm glad you found my last post useful. Now let's take a look at the hand in post #9.

Although you have the same hand (AT), this situation is quite different to last time, and I think you played it perfectly. There's a limper, who you'd like to get heads up with, as AT is usually beating the limper's range, but the most important thing to consider here (just as important as your cards, if not more so) is your stacksize, measured in big blinds. You only have 47,000 chips, and the blinds are at 10k/20k. With a little more than 2 big blinds - and with antes in play - you won't survive a full orbit. You're also quite unlikely to get a better hand before you're forced all in in the big blind in 5 or 6 hands' time. You simply can't afford to fold. You therefore have to take your chance now and go all in. I would actually be shoving just about any two high cards or anything suited and connected. The problem with being so short-stacked is that you have no "fold equity". You're always getting called, because both the limper and the blinds will have such ridiculous pot odds. The big blind in particular should always call here (even with 32o), because he only needs to put in 27,000 when the pot is already at 115,000 when the action reaches him. Indeed, if he calls, he'll only be contributing 27000 out of a final pot of 142,000. This means he'll at least break even if he wins the hand 27/142 = 19% of the time. It's a "call with any two cards" spot for the villain, because any two cards are likely to have around 30% equity against your hand. As played, the BB calls with 63s, which is a weak hand, but it's not a massive underdog against AT. In fact, with these precise holdings, the 63s will win almost 38% of the time. While 63s is usually unplayable, it becames an obvious call for pot odds solely because you are all in with a very short stack. Amazingly, the limper folds, when he has even better pot odds! The board runs out bad for you and you go busto, but just remember that you'll lose in this spot about 4 times out of 10.
If I remember correctly, the WCOOP ME freerolls award tickets to just 50 players (out of several thousand entrants), so you did tremendously well to get 110th. I played a few of those tourneys myself and got knocked out much earlier.

Ultimately, you got unlucky in this hand, losing a race as a 62/38 favourite. If you'd had a few more chips, then the villain would probably have folded to your all in shove. Once you're very short, though, you can't put a lot of pressure on deepstacked players. They will call with relatively weak hands, because - in a sense - they can afford to lose. Maybe next time you can build a larger stack earlier on, so you won't lose your fold equity.

Regarding the OSL, there is a wide range of player types. A lot of recreational players play it almost like bingo, just gambling with random trash hands, but the better players manage to make the money every month, and they do this by being careful with hand selection. The league games in particular reward patience and discipline. You'll still have bad beats frequently, but all you can do in tournaments is try to get your chips in as a favourite, and then see how the board runs out.

Best of luck with the next stage of the promo!

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner

Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Thu Sep 26, 2013 at 11:37 PM..
 
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Fri Sep 27, 2013, 05:08 AM
(#12)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
Arty, I owe you a big smoke! Thank you for the review, and you nailed it - stack size, or fold equity as I'm gonna call it now

Thanks to your feedback and being patient, wish I were more patient, I came in 92nd in the OpenSkill league, guess they're not all sharks eh, maybe I was too fish. Building equity early and holding on to it instead of trying to steal a ton of blinds is the next challenge ahead of me while still learning to bet without giving my cards away as I did in the last hand posted. This is gonna take a while, it is unnatural for me to bet on low cards, I need to find comfort in the positioning of the players betting and just keep at it.


Speaking of making or betting with real money.. Where is a good place to start and aim for after starting?

And these assessments man, they have a fixed time and it appears I have now failed it for simply forgetting about it while playing 2 tournaments at the same time. Perhaps if I make the top 100 of the Premier League, we could skip it
 
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Fri Sep 27, 2013, 11:38 AM
(#13)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokyPokyToo View Post
Please let us know when you have passed your basics quiz, so we may proceed to the next step!

Joss

PSO support got back to me about the issues with the assessment saying:

Hello,

Thanks for your email.

We are aware of this issue and the PokerSchoolOnline programming team is working on a solution. We sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Please let know us if you need more help.

Regards,

Jason M
PokerSchoolOnline Support
 
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Am I my own worst enemy? - Fri Sep 27, 2013, 12:47 PM
(#14)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
Hi again IBStryp! I'm glad you found my last post useful. Now let's ***snip In fact, with these precise holdings, the 63s will win almost 38% of the time. While 63s is usually unplayable, it becames an obvious call for pot odds solely because you are all in with a very short stack. Amazingly, the limper folds, when he has even better pot odds! The board runs out bad for you and you go busto, but just remember that you'll lose in this spot about 4 times out of 10.
Cheers,
Arty

Arty! I could shower you with trained Lebanese dancers and cigars man, it's like you pluck the right odds fate is gonna deal me next day and I learn a good hard lesson. This is amazing.

I should have packed the hand below, but state of mind is so important, and to maintain it for the hours a tourney can take. This isn't cake to just appear and perform, no siree, not at all.



What did I learn from the game above? Irrespective of stack size (this was very early in the tourney), if I am not a patient shark, I am fish.

Should I have raised 3 or more BBs at the first opportunity? What would you have done here?

Check out my mistakes earlier in the same tourney below, things could have been different had I bigger stacks I feel of course
I make 2-3 mistakes like this every tourney, not being AFK, but playing and trying to make good hands post flop when I should just fold. I feel lady luck favors me 2-3 times per tourney on all-in calls between just me and 1-2 guys, things like I need a queen to win to make 2 pairs with my pocket queen and my opponent needs a king (pair) to beat me. I haven't made sense of all this yet.






Would you believe I'd folded the previous hand and stepped out for what I thought was about half a min to light a smoke and I came back to my hand above folded for me (timed out) and I thought I had the speakers on loud enough



Lost the WCOOP Freeroll again, this is such a mental game, and if I am not top of my game for even a hand... it's here fishy fishy time. Need to work on rest and exercise. 9/10 times I would fold to that flop after seeing the 6 pair in the earlier hand.

My League Ranking is up to 5588 - not bad for a guy playing less than a week eh? I made my first real money ($0.10) by coming in the top 100/200 or some thing like in the OpenSkill tourney. I think I need to play real money tournaments to play and be eligible for the Premier league, need VPPs.

Not bad movement in the ranks for my time played if I say so myself


I just looked at my Regional tab and lo behold, freerolls to the Team Pro Asia Freerolls. Looking up Celina Lin, she made over $10k in her first week or so of starting playing NLHE, man, I have a ways to go.

Last edited by IBStryp; Fri Sep 27, 2013 at 03:34 PM..
 
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Fri Sep 27, 2013, 03:21 PM
(#15)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Thank you for posting these hands for review and I have asked one of the Hand Analysers to take a look at them for you.
He will do this within the next 24 hours and once they've been analysed I will advise on the next step.

Cheers.


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Fri Sep 27, 2013, 08:09 PM
(#16)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Hi again IBStryp! It's good to see you're learning quickly and asking lots of questions. No one expects you to instantly become a big winner at poker. The game takes years to master. I still have a lot to learn about it myself, but I'll look at the posts above and try and give you some further advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBStryp View Post
Speaking of making or betting with real money.. Where is a good place to start and aim for after starting?
You can use your Bankroll Builder bonuses for 2NL (blinds of 1c/2c) cash games on full ring (9-handed) tables. Once you've completed the Bankroll Builder promotion, you might decide to deposit some more money, or you could continue with freeroll tournaments. I used to play freerolls, and a couple of my buddies are doing that right now. See the threads by Roslyn and Rob. Once I had $10 in my account I played 45-man and 90-man SitnGos with a 25c buy-in, while also continuing to play 2NL cash.

Now to look at the hands you posted.

With AQs, you have a very strong starting hand and a stack of 14bb. This is a tough stack size to play in some formats, as it's kind of too big to go all in with early in a league game, but not deep enough to make a standard 3bb open. I think the minraise to 2bb is actually OK at this point. Unfortunately, another player re-raises, so if you want to see the flop you have to pay another blind. The flop comes J63, so you totally missed. Although you have two overcards, you can't continue with this hand. Your stack is too short now. If you'd connected with the flop, you could commit to getting all your chips in, but when you miss like this, you should get out at the first opportunity. You can fold to the small bet and still have 11bb for the next hand. Getting all your chips in with ace high on the turn is clearly not good. In league games, conserving your chips is all important. Don't go all in unless you have a strong made hand like top pair top kicker (TPTK), an overpair, or better.

The ATs hand is unfortunate. You would have made the nut straight with a redraw to the nut flush, but try not to be results oriented. If you'd managed to get back to the PC in time and raised pre-flop, the board would probably have come 765 all spades or something like that! Focus on making the right decision each time the action is on you. If the right decision is "go for a smoke", then do that. Just don't do it if you're short-stacked on a final table!

You're doing fine in the OSL. When you've passed the cash game quiz and collected your bonus, you'll be able to start playing real money 2NL, so you'll collect some VPPs. It will be a while before you earn enough to be eligible for big money in the Premier, so you have lots of time to learn more about strategy.

Hope this helps!
To get more tuition on cash game basics, I recommend going to live training sessions for the Wednesday and Saturday Games if you can. You'll even be able to play alongside other PSO members in the Homegame club and get instant feedback on the way you play your hands. Good luck!

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Sep 28, 2013, 07:20 PM
(#17)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
Hi again IBStryp! ***snip

You can use your Bankroll Builder bonuses for 2NL (blinds of 1c/2c) cash games on full ring (9-handed) tables. Once you've completed the Bankroll Builder promotion, you might decide to deposit some more money, or you could continue with freeroll tournaments. I used to play freerolls, and a couple of my buddies are doing that right now. See the threads by Roslyn and Rob. Once I had $10 in my account I played 45-man and 90-man SitnGos with a 25c buy-in, while also continuing to play 2NL cash.

If the right decision is "go for a smoke", then do that. Just don't do it if you're short-stacked on a final table!

You're doing fine in the OSL. When you've passed the cash game quiz and collected your bonus, you'll be able to start playing real money 2NL, so you'll collect some VPPs. It will be a while before you earn enough to be eligible for big money in the Premier, so you have lots of time to learn more about strategy.

Hope this helps!
To get more tuition on cash game basics, I recommend going to live training sessions for the Wednesday and Saturday Games if you can. You'll even be able to play alongside other PSO members in the Homegame club and get instant feedback on the way you play your hands. Good luck!

Cheers,
Arty

"If the right decision is "go for a smoke", then do that. Just don't do it if you're short-stacked on a final table! "

Word

I have taken the Basic Assessment for the 6th time now, before completing which I cannot take the Cash Course, and I keep getting 65% on it in spite of double checking the outs and such with the odds calculator.

I posted the mail from PSO support above and will wait till they get back to me before attempting it again. I mean, I have my doubts that I am failing to clear ~65% in that test over so many attempts.

I applied to the HomeGame Club and look forward to tips from playing on there, though it's ET and I'm +5:30GMT.

I read Roslyn and Rob's threads, interesting! I had something along those lines brewing in my head, let's see.

Thanks again.
 
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Sun Sep 29, 2013, 04:46 PM
(#18)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49
Hi,

I have finished the Basis Assessment quiz.
It won't let me do the Cash Quiz right away, so I will post here again when it's done.
 
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Sun Sep 29, 2013, 06:35 PM
(#19)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Excellent!

You've done all 3 tasks and you'll get your first bonus in the next 24 hours, good job!

Step Two

Use your first buy-in to only play the 1/2 cent real money FULL RING tables on PokerStars. Do not play any other type of game other than this. Post one hand that you had difficulty with here in this thread using the hand replayer and we will analyze it for you.
Please watch the following video and answer the question below.



List 3 reasons why a player may want to make a big bet?

Then study the Cash Game Course and once your happy have a go at attempting the quiz. Don't rush through the course, there's a lot of content there and the quiz is tricky so spend some time on this.

So you have 3 things to do to earn your next bonus.

1) Play the 1/2 cent Real Money tables and post an interesting hand here in the Forum using the Hand Replayer.
2) Watch the Bet Sizing video and answer the question below it.
3) Study and pass the Cash Game quiz.

Let us know as soon as you have all 3 tasks completed and we will award you with your next buy-in.

Best of Luck!


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Sun Sep 29, 2013, 11:39 PM
(#20)
IBStryp's Avatar
Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 49


How should this hand have been played? Should I have just folded?
 

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