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5 NL zoom, too optimistic river reraise?

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5 NL zoom, too optimistic river reraise? - Wed Sep 25, 2013, 01:30 PM
(#1)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
Villain 2: 67/33/0 (3 hands), WWSF 1/1
Vaillain 5: 63/25/0 (8 hands), WWSF 3/4

Pre: isolation
flop: figured they have 77, draw or most likely nothing really
turn: put villain 2 to missed flush, villain 5 i thought do that with any hand given agression and stack size. After raise I thought villain 2 has draw, (but given he didn't go all in, 999, full house, str are likely)

Given I was almost sure both players are are very loose aggressive, my raise on turn was ok?


PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($8.96)
SB ($4.92)
BB ($6.19)
UTG ($5.56)
MP ($1.18)
Hero (CO) ($5.58)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, 9
1 fold, MP calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, 1 fold, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold, MP calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.65) 9, 9, 7 (3 players)
SB bets $0.25, MP calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25

Turn: ($1.40) 5 (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $0.73 (All-In), Hero calls $0.73, SB raises to $1.46, Hero raises to $5.13 (All-In), SB calls $3.01 (All-In)

River: ($11.07) 10 (3 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $11.07 | Rake: $0.46

PS. I know you will say "Raise flop" I just didn't want to because was hoping to stack them both, just for fun of it.

Last edited by braveslice; Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 01:33 PM..
 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 02:37 PM
(#2)
Praydk's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 504
well you had 2 flush draws on the turn, I would have raised myself for value and protection. I'd put SB on a draw given his line on the turn
Overall I would do the same, only yeah I'd put in a flop raise

Last edited by Praydk; Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 02:40 PM..
 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 03:50 PM
(#3)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Hi brave,

Preflop iso raise is fine. Raise the flop!!! Why just call here? The board is wet and 2 possibly loose players have shown an interest, it is essential to raise immediately to build the pot, and to reopen the betting so if one of them has the case 9, they can reraise and we can get the money in before some scary cards come off and beat us or freeze our action. Yes I see your post script, but not raising the flop increases the chance you don't stack them both, so your action was counter productive to your goal imo. You stand to make the most money over time by raising this flop, not slow playing it.


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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 04:10 PM
(#4)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
I knew I will get schooled, lol

Ty for that, yeah you are both right. To my defense villain 5 would almost definitely had folded.
 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 04:23 PM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
I never raised paired boards either with trips or a flopped boat, i normally raise the turn. Can we check a boat on the flop to let them catch up when were IP and if were OOP are we check raising a boat on the flop or donking the turn i dont like the idea of check raising the turn then in case they check back.
 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 04:52 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
I never raised paired boards either with trips or a flopped boat, i normally raise the turn. Can we check a boat on the flop to let them catch up
I know you love to slow play too. It is costing you money.

"Can we check a boat on the flop to let them catch up" Why do you want to let loose players catch up for cheap, when they will dutifully pay you a premium to try and do so? What happens when their drawing hands etc miss and they won't pay you any more? And when they have hands that have little chance to improve but who's hand strength is likely to decrease with many scare cards on the turn, you'll do better hooking their money in now before they miss or get scared.


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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 12:23 PM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
That makes sense Dave when you put it like that but i dont intentionally slow play i just think like on a 996r board if i got raised i would peel once with over pairs depending on if it was a 3bet pot and where they were sitting.

Would it be wrong to fold a straight draw on a paired flop? I normally don't try to build big pots with drawing hands on paired flops which is why i dont raise my boat or trips because i only expect to get 2 streets out of an over pair and 1 out of a draw to most players at zoom anyway they are all nitty players that are fit or fold.

Its like if i flopped 77 on a K72 flop i almost always get a fold if i raise so i normally raise the turn and try and commit them on the turn so they have to call a river.

If your saying raise flop i will do so, obviously im still learning and un till i hear or see other players are making more money that way i would continue check raising the turn instead but now you said do it on the flop i will try it out.
 
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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 04:16 PM
(#8)
braveslice's Avatar
Since: Feb 2013
Posts: 568
I have to point out that not raising flop wasn't really in a mathematical sense a mistake, I had 80% to win.
 
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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 09:30 PM
(#9)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveslice View Post
I have to point out that not raising flop wasn't really in a mathematical sense a mistake, I had 80% to win.
The object of the game is not to have the best hand at showdown. It's to make the most money. Raising usually makes money. Calling often doesn't.


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Thu Sep 26, 2013, 10:10 PM
(#10)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by braveslice View Post
I have to point out that not raising flop wasn't really in a mathematical sense a mistake, I had 80% to win.
First, you don't know you're 80% to win, since you can't see their hands on the flop.

Second, you're not raising to "protect your hand", you're raising for value, and not raising the flop is a mistake because it's leaving value on the table.


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