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€2.20 €1k GTD.

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€2.20 €1k GTD. - Wed Sep 25, 2013, 05:15 PM
(#1)
Affluenza's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 139
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...179_19183FA31C

I like leading around 1/2 pot here since its a pretty wet board, I dont like my turn bet....

Was this the correct fold? He was playing 24/16 over 16 hands.

Thanks, Affluenza
 
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Wed Sep 25, 2013, 05:55 PM
(#2)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Multiple players in the hand,pot it on the flop. You want to make the draws pay to continue and you'll still get called by virtually every 10x hand for value. Half pot sized bet here actually gives the draws the correct price to continue.

I would fold on the raise by the villain as well,their line looks like they made the flush. Watch for this spot with this player in the future to see if they will bluff at it in this kind of spot,but absent that specific read...yeah,folding is probably best here.

Last edited by Moxie Pip; Wed Sep 25, 2013 at 06:01 PM..
 
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Affluenza Hand 88 - Fri Sep 27, 2013, 06:36 AM
(#3)
brettnz's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 377
Hi guess Im proberly going to give you different view to others .
Im fine with your pre flop play but then Im checking the flop not opening the betting seems your betting for information only ,never a good idea.you get the same info by seeing what they bet ,this info not worth a lot anyway.so Im checking and proberly calling any reasonable bet /folding to 80% pot plus to tight players.I think you end up in same spot but paid less to get there and with a chance to see turn cheaper .As you played it correct fold when reraised on turn unless your willing to gamble your life on a set with 3 cards to flush on brd and your only making 8 high flush at best on river (of course maybe quad8s with 1 outer),Im not.But as I stated thats my view and I think any real hand reviewer will tell you to ignore all I said
Good Luck with your game
Regards Brett


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Fri Sep 27, 2013, 08:51 AM
(#4)
raccy's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 130
Oh no. I see something completely different here. The player who raised may have been representing a flush but I don't believe they had it. Maybe they had one heart? Or maybe 22 or 55 and they didn't like so many hearts on the board? Maybe they put you on a flush draw and raised so that your odds wouldn't be so good? They would definitely not think you flopped a set. Even if they had the flush, you'd still have a few outs, so I'll say call at least and wish for a cheap showdown.
 
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Fri Sep 27, 2013, 09:35 PM
(#5)
Moxie Pip's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettnz View Post
Hi guess Im proberly going to give you different view to others .
Im fine with your pre flop play but then Im checking the flop not opening the betting seems your betting for information only ,never a good idea.you get the same info by seeing what they bet ,this info not worth a lot anyway.so Im checking and proberly calling any reasonable bet /folding to 80% pot plus to tight players.I think you end up in same spot but paid less to get there and with a chance to see turn cheaper .As you played it correct fold when reraised on turn unless your willing to gamble your life on a set with 3 cards to flush on brd and your only making 8 high flush at best on river (of course maybe quad8s with 1 outer),Im not.But as I stated thats my view and I think any real hand reviewer will tell you to ignore all I said
Good Luck with your game
Regards Brett
Hi Brett.

Um,betting the flop here is most definitely NOT betting for information only. We've flopped the 2nd nuts here,the only hand that's beating us right now is 1010. We're betting for two things here...to price out the draws and to get value from hands that can call us.

That means betting enough to make anyone staying in the hand to be doing so unprofitably,whilst simultaneously not betting so much that we're value owning ourselves and only getting called by hand that beat us. Now since we have 2nd nuts here,it's highly unlikely that we're behind anyone...but,and this is where a lot of people go off the rails on this concept...IF we can get the players to make -EV calls,then that's exactly what we want.

If they all fold out to our pot bet on the flop then that's a good result...we're scooping a decent pot here. But if we get calls on our flop bet,that's the best scenario,so long as we're betting enough to be putting them in a spot where their calls are -EV. This way when we get a blanked turn,which will be the MOST likely outcome,we've built the pot enough so that we can be making them commit themselves to calling our shove on the turn,which if we bet the pot on the flop as I advised,would be 3040 with our bet and 2 callers,would be the proper bet for us on the turn---shoving.

If we bet the pot on the flop and get 2 callers and then they fold when we shove the turn...again...good result as we already extracted some value on the flop.

And if we pot it on the flop and do have to fold the turn it was only another 361 chips that we lost anyway. Small risk for for extracting tons of value and also denying the villains proper odds to call our bet on the flop. We will never win every time we do this,that's not the goal. The goal is to get the maximum value that we can the times we do win whilst losing the least that we can when we don't.

Making the opponents be the ones to make a mistake by making -EV calls is how we accomplish this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raccy View Post
Oh no. I see something completely different here. The player who raised may have been representing a flush but I don't believe they had it. Maybe they had one heart? Or maybe 22 or 55 and they didn't like so many hearts on the board? Maybe they put you on a flush draw and raised so that your odds wouldn't be so good? They would definitely not think you flopped a set. Even if they had the flush, you'd still have a few outs, so I'll say call at least and wish for a cheap showdown.
Maybe. But in a $2.20 game most players are going to be fairly transparent in their play. I think we're up against a flush draw that hit more often than not here.
 
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Fri Sep 27, 2013, 10:53 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi all,

We start the hand with 25bb's and flop middle set... I'm not thinking about folding, I'm thinking about how to get the monies in the middle. Since it's 4 way action and a bit of a wet board I prefer leading out for a bit larger sizing here, I would go about 499-599. On the turn, just bet/get it in. 700 into 2K is too small again, we really don't want to give single hearts a reason to easily go to the river. Bet at least 1200 here imo.

I really don't like the fold to his raise. Sure he might have a flush. If he's got one, I'll have to hit my 10 outter (unless it's a baby flush, in which case a 4th heart might be an out). I can certainly see him raising what looks like a weakly sized turn lead with a lot of worse hands, both that contain a single heart and that don't.

Cliff notes: 25bb stack and flop middle set, if we don't show this hand down or drag the pot before showdown, we've done something wrong imo.


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Sat Sep 28, 2013, 09:53 PM
(#7)
EmotiveKiwi's Avatar
Since: Sep 2011
Posts: 140
Could we not just shove pre? It's something I would consider doing alot of the time in this spot.
 
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Sat Sep 28, 2013, 10:08 PM
(#8)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmotiveKiwi View Post
Could we not just shove pre? It's something I would consider doing alot of the time in this spot.
I think it's too many chips to shove with. Yes, I'd pick up a couple blinds, but with it being too many chips, I wouldn't want to value-own myself.

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