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feedback please?

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feedback please? - Thu Oct 03, 2013, 08:27 AM
(#1)
hannyug's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,050
i would like some feedback for the player playing the 76hand,, we had a discussion on table about it and would now like some serious professional feedback,,

hand was in premier league today,,



all feedback welcome

thanks
 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 10:02 AM
(#2)
TrumpinJoe's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,557
A lot of new players rarely fold pre after they have chips in the pot.

Good decision, NOT!

Edit:
After reviewing preflop equity, the villain is 4:1 against an over pair and 3:2 againt suited connected overs. With about 11:1 implied odds for 6% of their stack the call can be justified if they can play fit or fold unless the flops hits them twice (2 pair, trips or starght and/or flysh draw).

Last edited by TrumpinJoe; Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:19 AM..
 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 10:31 AM
(#3)
Grade b's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,604
Did the player chime in?

It could be that he felt the Big Blind was restealing and was hoping to take it down with a big bluff later on.

Early in a League game this would not be my choice (note: My record in these sucks) without a good read that the Big blind will raise his blinds with a wide range of hands and will pay me off if I do hit.

Grade b


I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

13 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 11:09 AM
(#4)
hannyug's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,050
sorry for being an ignoramus, but, what do you mean by 'did the player ''chime'' in? '

I take this to mean, did the players, both the 76 guy and the qq guy 'discuss (chime)' the hand ?

hanny
 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 11:29 AM
(#5)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
Hi hannyug!

Here's the way that I'd look at the hand. If I'm villain 2, when I decide to play the hand, I need to make a standard raise to 3BB+1BB for each limper, so I'd raise to 360. I wouldn't min-raise, as all that's going to accomplish is to price in opps to try to outdraw me.
If I was then villain 7 with QQ, I need to make a standard 3-bet, which is to 3X the previous bet (or a pot-sized raise if this value is larger). I would not raise any smaller, or I can be giving the opp the right odds to stay.
Back to the 67s. I now have to call 180 into a pot that will be 630 (28.6%). If I have the opp labeled as tight, when I go to pokerstove and use a 10% range for villain 7, my 67s is worth 33.7%. Since my hand is worth more, I'm calling.

The flop is a jackpot for player 2 and player 7 now leads out.. for a bet size that to me is a tell. They bet too small preflop, now on the flop, they're betting too big, as a standard bet is 1/2 pot. If I'm player 2, this tells me that they at least have a J, if not better. On a dry board with no flush/straight draws, if I'm player 2, I'm calling and then hoping I can get it in on the turn. By raising here, player 7 should NOT be calling nor raising unless they can beat at least a J, if not a 6... and the raise is too small. If I'm raising, it needs to be a standard raise to 3X the previous bet.

The turn brings a flush draw and possible straight draw (but the straight draws should have folded on the flop. When player 7 checks, due to the draws, player 2 needs to make a 1/2 pot bet and it's an easy call, to call the shove.

IMO, the hand was not bet very well by either player. By both players betting too small and playing too weakly, they kept letting each other get there... which is not what I want to do in a hand. If I'm ahead, I want the opp to have to make a -EV play to stay in the hand (one where they expect to lose chips on average)... not a +EV play, where I expect to lose chips.

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 12:01 PM
(#6)
hannyug's Avatar
Since: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,050
hi john!

tks for the evaluation

on the table, after the hand, villain 2 started whinging and whining about villain 7 hitting his 2 outer on the river at what he estimated to be 10%,, and this prompted me to throw in my 2cents, which was that firstly, 30mins into a premier league tourney, he should not be opening with 76suited in mid position, and, ok, if he did , it should be a 2.5/3 bb bet, and secondly, if he is getting almost 3bet by the big blind ( and remember this is premier league), he had a 2nd chance to muck his hand which he did not.

he kept on whining about flop, turn and river play and saying he was right, and I agreed, yes, postflop he was very unlucky to get sucked out by the queens, but, if he had not been in the hand in the first place, which I thought was the correct play, then he wouldn't have shipped his stack to villain 7

of course, after this he started being sarcastic, lol, saying that I must the be 'best poker player in the world', to which I said, ok, lets post the hand in the forum and get some real feedback, never mind what hanny says,, :P,, this will be better for you than to keep whining in the chat box

so, as a final bottom line, given that its 30minutes into a premier league, should anyone play this hand? and if they do, and they get raised by the big blind, should they continue to the flop?

thanks,

hanny

Last edited by hannyug; Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:03 PM..
 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 12:05 PM
(#7)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,802
(Super-Moderator)
BronzeStar
The bottom line....

If he opens the hand (they're open is TOO SMALL too), he has to call the 3-bet when the opp makes it too small and prices him in. They also made a bad raise on the flop (too small). They either need to 3X the bet on the flop or call and bet the turn.

QQ player needs to fold to the turn bet.

Honestly, as badly as both of them bet this hand, they both deserved to lose it.

John (JWK24)


Super-Moderator



6 Time Bracelet Winner



Last edited by JWK24; Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:08 PM..
 
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Thu Oct 03, 2013, 02:09 PM
(#8)
AceKingBlows's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 101
BronzeStar
Nothing to discuss? Just seems like a cooler to me, nothing wrong with opening 76s when you're deep (for a tourney, anyway) I wouldn't do it as a default but it's fine imo. Guy with the queens could probably fold the turn (as played, though flop decision is realistically for his stack so I prefer to shove or fold here, no "re-evaluation" when you have less than a PSB behind) but it's certainly not a ridiculous call (let's face it, we've all seen far worse!)

If I have QQ here i'm not thrilled but i'm probably just getting it in OTF, no sense in flatting and leaving less than a PSB for the turn. Villain 2 played it fine and chips are 100% going in whatever the action given this runout.
 

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