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Way ahead or way behind

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Way ahead or way behind - Sun Oct 06, 2013, 10:55 PM
(#1)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,425
Hi

I keep hearing this Way ahead or way behind...on tv and /or on PSO

But what exactly is it ?

Im thinking its I nearly have a lock on a particular hand or I have hardly any equity at all

I f this is the case how shoudl we play in both situatons?

See why is it that let say we have 55 and flop comes T52 that most people check ?...and ti then seems to fool people

this is an example of way ahead right?.so we dont bet to try to let them catch up

Also if we are way behind is that a time for possibly trying a bluff ?

Can someone give me an easy example of a way ahead way behind please? showing why it is so important

Thanks a lot

rolo
 
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Sun Oct 06, 2013, 11:45 PM
(#2)
RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
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I think you have the idea, except for the way behind part. A good example of being way ahead is when you flop a set of 5's on a T52 board after raising pre-flop. You don't really expect people to be calling raises with 34 so most opponents will have very little to no hand equity against your holding (like 1 pair hands or overcards). Giving them a free card is relatively safe because little to no cards will give them a better hand, but a bunch of cards will appear to improve their hand. As in, they think their AJ hand just improved to the best hand if they hit an A on the turn, when in reality they are drawing dead.

When you are way behind you have very little chance of winning the hand. A classic example of this is getting it all-in pre-flop with a worse pair or AK against AA. It is a bad situation to be in, but you often will not know it at the time since you don't what two cards your opponent is holding. If you suspect you are way behind in a given situation, the last thing you want to do is build the pot any further, so bluffing is usually not a good idea. Of course there are always exceptions, like if you have JJ on an A high board and you suspect your opponent as QQ. You are way behind in the hand, but there is certainly a chance you can win the hand if you bluff your opponent and get them to fold.
 
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Mon Oct 07, 2013, 12:54 AM
(#3)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,425
ohhh nice explanation thank you

Im not generally scared of monsters under the bed but i been runnign bad and on that flop they have TT so im the one way behind lol

So yes be bad to bluff

In you rothe rexmple im always thinking have they really got it on the A flop yet there doesnt seem to be that much bluffing generally unles soyu count continuationbetting which is a topic im trying to learn

I knew I didnt have it all in my head correctly though so ty fo rtaking the tiem to explain it

good luck to you
 
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Mon Oct 07, 2013, 08:16 AM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
WA/WB refers to situations where you have a made hand (usually one pair) that can't bet for value and expect to get called by worse very often, because the strength of your hand relative to your opponent's won't be close. One of you is way ahead and one is way behind, and the guy that's way behind is unlikely to call a bet and give your hand value if that's the case. It usually occurs when you flop a medium strength hand that doesn't beat much, but occasionally you're WA/WB with a pretty strong hand, knowing that you're way ahead, and that villain can't call with many worse hands.

Textbook example:

KK on A72r. You're way behind sets and every Ax hand. You're way ahead of everything else. There is no hand in villain's range that is close to flipping with you. In absolute hand rank terms, the worst hand that beats your KK on this flop is A3. But you're way behind A3, as you have less than 9% equity. The best hand that you beat is QQ, and that has less than 9% equity against you.

So even though KK is somewhere in the middle range for strength on A72, it's way ahead of the next hand (QQ), but way behind A3.

When WA/WB, hands that beat you will gladly give you action. Hands that are losing will not. If you bet this flop, you'll fold out the hands you beat and only get action from hands that beat you. You'd valueown yourself, and go from "likely to be WA or WB" to "definitely way behind".

When you're likely to be WA/WB, you'd often check behind in position (or just call, when facing a bet). If you're ahead, you'd check to allow villain to think he's good, or to induce him to bluff. If you're behind, then checking is an attempt to get to showdown for a cheap price. After all, you don't want to bloat the pot if there's a good chance you're behind. Checking and calling keeps the pot small.


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Last edited by ArtySmokesPS; Mon Oct 07, 2013 at 08:31 AM..
 
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Mon Oct 07, 2013, 08:07 PM
(#5)
rolo834's Avatar
Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,425
Thanks Arty

had clear head yesterday but not today.....just typed out a ong repy but hit delte to delte one charactor and must have hit F11 by accident then hit escape and lost the lot

wont retype it

ony part i mention which you wont undertsand as im not retyping it all is ....ithink on tv you kno wwhen commentators can see the cards thru that glass I think theymaybe possibly being results orintated maybe? as even A high canbe ahead soemtiems as making a pair in holdem is difficult
 
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Tue Oct 08, 2013, 10:32 AM
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ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,359
I know what you mean about commentators having the benefit of seeing holecards, so they often don't talk about ranges very much. That being said, you don't need to see holecards to recognise a way ahead/way behind spot. The flop alone is often enough to spot the situation.
e.g. If the flop comes . Whoever has the best hand on that board is likely to be way ahead, because there are no draws. A big ace is way ahead of a smaller ace, for example, but is still way behind anyone with a seven in their hand.
On a wetter flop with lots of draws, hands that are currently losing won't be way behind, because their draw gives them more outs, which means more equity.
You mentioned that ace high is often the best hand, but it's not often way ahead or way behind. If the opponent has two live cards, he's got 6 outs to make a pair, after all. WA/WB spots usually occur when the worst hand only has 2 or 3 outs, or needs runner-runner.


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