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Flop play

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Flop play - Thu Oct 17, 2013, 07:30 PM
(#1)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi guys,

Playing 2nl full ring zoom

I have been having a think about c-betting on the flop when we connect. I think I might be getting confused when to lead or to check on the flop when we have connected.

I'm not entirely sure at what villain type it would be best to make this move against, but it's just a thought

Say

Hero has AJ and is OOP

Flop comes AT3 rainbow (no draws present)

Hero has made TPMK (top pair marginal kicker)

Against a villain would it best to check this flop. I'm thinking this because of the following:

- if we bet, unlikely to be called by worse (dependent on villain type)
- since we have a marginal holding this would be a good way to pot control OOP
- by checking we are allowing our opponent to either bluff or bet with worse and we can then call.
- if villain checks the flop, then we can lead the turn. By having the checked street the pot is not becoming bloated.

Anyone thinking this is a bad play?

My a econd question is, if we have this type hand or TPTK, what situations do you think where leading the flop is better than checking, excluding draw type flops, multiway pots where TPTK hands do not do well, and situations where villains likes to call down, I.e LPs?

Cheers,

Pullin1988
 
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Thu Oct 17, 2013, 07:37 PM
(#2)
JWK24's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 24,824
(Super-Moderator)
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Without knowing the opp types, preflop action (it's a must) and stack sizes... IT DEPENDS!

Change one of those things, I could bet/call a raise, check/call, check/fold, bet/re-raise..... it depends. With no info, it's impossible to say.

John (JWK24)


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Thu Oct 17, 2013, 07:51 PM
(#3)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Roger that!
 
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Thu Oct 17, 2013, 10:43 PM
(#4)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,353
As John says, it depends... on a lot!

When OOP as the PFR, I'm nearly always betting when I hit top pair. I might try pot-controlling a later street, but at 2NL especially, I want to get some value. By checking the flop, you allow villain to control the action. It's bad enough for you that he has the advantage of position, so it's even worse if you give him the opportunity of deciding exactly how much he decides to put in the pot. (He can make your life very hard if he bets big, and he can make his own life very easy by checking behind).

One specific spot where I will sometimes check OOP as the PFR with top pair is if I know the villain is aggressive, but will only put money in the pot with a worse hand if I show weakness. e.g. I raise BvB and S-LAG flats in position. On an A92r, I might check AJ, because I basically have the nuts. Villain won't call a bet, but he will bluff (repping the ace) if I check.

Your thought process sounds pretty good, but it's getting close to being "fancy play syndrome". At 2NL, villains will make a lot of "calling mistakes", so when you have a value hand, you should generally bet in order to get that value. Checking to induce bluffs or get action on later streets is certainly viable (and will be useful at higher stakes) but for now I think your go-to play should be to bet when you connect.


Bracelet Winner
 
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Fri Oct 18, 2013, 02:05 AM
(#5)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers guys.

I wasn't sure if this sort of play was getting a bit fancy for 2nl. I appreciate the help.

Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 03:08 PM
(#6)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Just thought i would add to this if you have AJ on AT3.

Lets say the board was AT3 then if you lead into the pre flop raiser and you bet flop turn and river you might find your getting called down by a better ace, obviously if you get raised your beat but AK and AQ will also call and i would just go for two streets with AJ and by leading into him and checking the river you might face a bet and lose.


If he has Tx he might check behind and then you can value bet turn and river, the only time i would lead is if the villain was a fish that has every ace in the deck and will call all 3 streets with worse and i would go all in vs some of them to aslong as you know they call with all the dominated aces.

Obviously as the preflop raiser i will bet IP or OOP but il check back weak aces IP and get two streets out of Tx .

Last edited by mike2198; Sat Oct 19, 2013 at 03:16 PM..
 
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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 04:22 PM
(#7)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers mike,

Thanks for the steer.

Pullin
 

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