Home / Community / Forum / Poker Education / Texas Hold'Em Cash Games /

Reg 16NL 6-Max: X/R with FD OTF - Turn Evaluation

Old
Default
Reg 16NL 6-Max: X/R with FD OTF - Turn Evaluation - Fri Oct 18, 2013, 03:45 AM
(#1)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Hello.



Villain was a TAG reg who can sometimes mix things up. Overall he plays decently.

OTF I felt that a large portion of his calling range would be floating a c-bet here and if I managed to make my hand OTT I will not be getting action very often.

My plan here was to x and take a free card or x/r if he took a stab. I was folding to a re-raise/shove and betting again on most scare cards OTT if he called. I would have to think between betting and checking my flush if it came here.

Villain calls and river bricks. From here I believe his range could contain Jx/SD combos/FD combos which this turn card does not affect very often, maybe he is slow playing a set here once in a while as well.

What I would like to know is:
1. Should I be betting on this turn card as well?
2. If we check and villain checks behind us, can we value bet if we hit TP OTR?
3. If we bet and villain calls again, can we stab again on any river cards?

Thanks for reading.
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 05:49 AM
(#2)
Shichi-77's Avatar
Since: Jul 2012
Posts: 607
The most logical for me is cbet OTF, if I decide to x/r I understand I have to barrel at least OTT too and some times OTR with busted draw also . because his hand doesn't look as very strong for me, It's Tx or Jx that decided just to call your raise . but if he understands that you are very aggressive he might slow play monsters also. when you x/r OTF you represent very narrow range of strong made hands TT,JJ,66 and of course weak hand as FD , when you cbet OTF you represent over pairs too.

Last edited by Shichi-77; Fri Oct 18, 2013 at 05:55 AM..
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 07:10 AM
(#3)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Yea, I think cbetting this flop has more merits to x/raising.
The problem with x/r is that we bloat the pot with a draw and when they flat our raise its going to be hard to continue when we miss and we might not get a chance to see the river.

Here's what can happen when we cbet:
. bet and they raise, we can shove profitably
. bet and they call, we have barreling opportunities to take the pot OTT even if we miss
. bet and they fold, we win the hand with Ace high

Here's what can happen when we check:
. check and they check, we miss the turn. now what?
. check and they bet, we raise. They shove we call off
. check and they bet, we raise and they fold. we win the hand with Ace high.
. check and they bet, we raise. They call. we miss the turn. now what?

Also, I think x/r this flop with FD is kind of unbalanced. With what hands would you consider x/r-ing a wet flop?
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 09:46 AM
(#4)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
Hi,

Unless we start risking giving a free card on that wet flop with our strong hands don't see how we can balance our x/raising range here, could be a good idea vs a player that always take a stab to the pot when check to him. Also I expect that board to hit a BTN vs CO calling range pretty hard, so don't know how many folds are going to get.

What range a re you giving him, when he shoves or he calls a shove that we can get it in profitable?
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 11:15 AM
(#5)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
We are even money against: KQ, 98, JT, JJ, TT, 66
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 12:06 PM
(#6)
GamblingProp's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 714
Like most people here I don't like the flop check/raise.
As played I think we should decide from either betting turn and shoving any river, or checking turn and giving up unless we hit an ace or a spade.
I don't see a lot of scare cards that can come on the river that they wont help villain's range, so with that in mind, I prefer checking turn.
Also we have some showdown equity if it goes check/check both streets.
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 04:32 PM
(#7)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoVARTA View Post
We are even money against: KQ, 98, JT, JJ, TT, 66
Maybe I give too much credit to reg players, but i don't expect most regs to shove just with the OESD on a board with a FD. Maybe if you think he is tilting or playing back to you a lot.
 
Old
Default
Fri Oct 18, 2013, 05:28 PM
(#8)
Low Rated's Avatar
Since: Mar 2012
Posts: 114
Sorry I didn't have any stats for you guys and I am unable to remember/explain every table dynamic so big thanks for the input in that regard.

What I was trying to do was disguise my hand by taking a different line so that I could get more value from the villain in the cases when I do make the flush while getting folds from the times where he was pure bluffing. As I said I was not expecting villain to be folding to a cbet on this flop very often and I thought that barrelling the made flush OTT would make our hand look exactly like what it was.

Quote:
Here's what can happen when we cbet:
. bet and they raise, we can shove profitably
. bet and they call, we have barreling opportunities to take the pot OTT even if we miss
. bet and they fold, we win the hand with Ace high
. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable shoving here since this villain is probably only calling with over pairs/sets/2 pair combos. I think I'm like carlos in this case,
Quote:
Maybe I give too much credit to reg players, but i don't expect most regs to shove just with the OESD on a board with a FD. Maybe if you think he is tilting or playing back to you a lot.
. This the line I take most often.
. I'm happy with that .


Quote:
Here's what can happen when we check:
. check and they check, we miss the turn. now what?
. check and they bet, we raise. They shove we call off
. check and they bet, we raise and they fold. we win the hand with Ace high.
. check and they bet, we raise. They call. we miss the turn. now what?
. barrel opportunities on the turn and/or river?
. I wouldn't shove here so I probably not calling a shove without a solid read... .
. that's cool with me.
. that's what I'm asking for input on .
 
Old
Default
Mon Oct 21, 2013, 05:53 AM
(#9)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaRLoS_DZ87 View Post
Maybe I give too much credit to reg players, but i don't expect most regs to shove just with the OESD on a board with a FD. Maybe if you think he is tilting or playing back to you a lot.
True, but we are shoving against their raise. They don't necessarily have to call the shove, the can raise/fold after we cbet the flop. When we do call their shove in case we x/f flop or they do call ours when we cbet, they raise, and we shove there are still the combo draws like KsQs, 9s8s and given the money in the pot I think we could be getting the right odds to make the call depending on which line was taken OTF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Rated View Post
. barrel opportunities on the turn and/or river?
. I wouldn't shove here so I probably not calling a shove without a solid read... .
. that's cool with me.
. that's what I'm asking for input on .
That's my point. The line we took will leave us guessing. And we need to be planning the hand before we take a decision. It's just that there are just so few hand where I would x/r a wet flop and when the villain calls their hand could either be a strong draw or a made hand. So I think there aren't any cards we could barrel the turn with unless its going to be a value bet. So I think we should be giving up.
 

Getting PokerStars is easy: download and install the PokerStars game software, create your free player account, and validate your email address. Clicking on the download poker button will lead to the installation of compatible poker software on your PC of 51.7 MB, which will enable you to register and play poker on the PokerStars platform. To uninstall PokerStars use the Windows uninstaller: click Start > Control Panel and then select Add or Remove programs > Select PokerStars and click Uninstall or Remove.

Copyright (c) PokerSchoolOnline.com. All rights reserved, Rational Group, Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, Isle of Man, IM3 1DZ. You can email us on support@pokerschoolonline.com