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ROI in 9man STT's

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ROI in 9man STT's - Sat Oct 19, 2013, 07:51 AM
(#1)
maDe91's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 47
I am pretty new to the tournament side of poker and I was just wondering how to percieve the ROI% in 9man STT's. Like what ROI% is considered "crushing the stakes" and how big should the sample size be to draw conclusions?
 
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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 09:15 AM
(#2)
TweedleBeetl's Avatar
Since: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,146
Disclaimer: I am not an expert, this is just my opinion

To both questions: it depends.

How mush ROI is "crushing the stakes": I think that at higher stakes you need much lower ROI to be considered crushing than at lowest stakes. Lets face it, the lowest stakes are trivial to beat given good BR management.
Another issue is multi-tabling. most people (me, for example) will see their ROI drop a lot when multi-tabling, and personally I would say that someone who has 5-10% ROI while playing 12 tables is crushing. After all the ROI is not important (as long as it is positive) as much as the hourly.

How big a sample is needed:
This depends a lot on your true ROI.
The smaller your ROI is, the bigger a sample you need to be able to be sure it actually is positive.
In any case I'd say a minimum of 300 games is needed for a ballpark, much more is needed for any accuracy
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 04:57 AM
(#3)
LittleBigBet's Avatar
Since: Oct 2013
Posts: 6
I can comment on this question as i played those games quite a bit. 9max regular speed micros, u can beat up to 15-20% over thousand of games. 9max turbo micros u can beat 10-15%. 9max hypers micros u need a much bigger sample but i would say anything between 5-10%. I currently play 3.50 6max hypers and have a 9.5% ROI in them over 2000 games. I've only played 7500 6max hypers on ps for 2months and i show a roi of 9%. Just to give u an idea of what u can archieve in 6max hypers as i think hypers are much more profitable these days than 9max regular or turbo speed games. Coz u can play much more games of hypers, your hourly will be a lot higher if u multitable ofcourse. Hypers are the new hype and new bad players try them out, so the micros hypers are softer than regular/turbo speed stt. Ive played like 20.000 9max turbo/regular speed stt on partypoker, ft, ps, ipoker, unibet and intertops in last 2years, but 80% of those games were on partypoker and have a roi of 10% up to 22$ stake. But now partypoker is absolutely crap, their software is 1 big bugfest and they segregated the player pools. They charge 3% for withdrawals and they reduced the rakeback u get from spending your points on bonuses + all their promotions are useless, like stupid freerolls. So stick with ps, micros are still super beatable, but i know u not anywehere as good as best players in those games, just from asking this question i can tell. U probably win with a 0-5% roi if you have some kind of idea how to play them. U need to study them quite a bit, im not gonna help u on that part, u need to figure that out with yourself.
300 is not enough to have any idea about your roi, u would need a min of 1000 for regular speed and 2000 for turbo to have kind of idea what kind of player u are. Micros don't have as much variance as higher stakes as u should show higher roi's in them.
Hypers u need at least 10.000 games for have some idea of your ROI. But after like 1k-2k games u should know if u win or not. Im talking about micros here. Any higher stake u need a lot more games to figure that out as the roi will drop and so higher variance.
Just to give u some advice, change to hypers if u want to make more money, the variance might be lot higher, but if u can multitable them like at least 8+ tables, then u get out of those swings pretty fast and your hourly will be like double or triple compared to regular/turbo games.


peace out
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:42 AM
(#4)
slettuce's Avatar
Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 221
If you put in the volume then situations like below could happen around 20% of the time.
Obviously solid poker and making the right decisions every hand and picking the right spots to even consider a decision, is positive EV in 9 man SnG's.

I made a blog entry with regard to mindset (using 9man SnG's as my reference).
Link is below if you are interested.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blogs/slettuce/how-bad-beat-after-bad-beat-can-keep-the-inspiration-alive


This was a nice hour.

PokerStars Tournament #806075925, No Limit Hold'em
Buy-In: $1.32/$0.18 USD
9 players
Total Prize Pool: $11.88 USD
Tournament started 2013/10/22 6:13:25 ET


Dear slettuce,

You finished the tournament in 2nd place. A USD 3.56 award has been credited to your Real Money account.


PokerStars Tournament #806098754, No Limit Hold'em
Buy-In: $1.32/$0.18 USD
9 players
Total Prize Pool: $11.88 USD
Tournament started 2013/10/22 7:25:33 ET


Dear slettuce,

You finished the tournament in 1st place. A USD 5.95 award has been credited to your Real Money account.


PokerStars Tournament #806098656, No Limit Hold'em
Buy-In: $1.32/$0.18 USD
9 players
Total Prize Pool: $11.88 USD
Tournament started 2013/10/22 7:26:47 ET


Dear slettuce,

You finished the tournament in 2nd place. A USD 3.56 award has been credited to your Real Money account.




Last Ten SnG's Just for the record.

10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Turbo] $1.32+$0.18 2/9 $3.56
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Turbo] $1.32+$0.18 1/9 $5.95
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Hyper-Turbo] $1.39+$0.11 8/9 $0.00
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Hyper-Turbo] $1.39+$0.11 4/9 $0.00
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Turbo] $1.32+$0.18 2/9 $3.56
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Turbo] $1.32+$0.18 8/9 $0.00
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Hyper-Turbo] $1.39+$0.11 2/9 $3.75
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em $1.29+$0.21 1/9 $5.81
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em $1.29+$0.21 3/9 $2.32
10/22/2013 $1.50 NL Hold'em [Turbo] $1.32+$0.18 1/9 $5.95

Last edited by slettuce; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 09:15 AM..
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:41 AM
(#5)
HokyPokyToo's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,901
Hi LittleBigBet,

Welcome to PokerSchoolOnline!

Here is a link to help familiarize you with all the features and services available at PSO. Feel free to look around the forum
and post any comments or questions you may have.



You are invited to join the PokerSchoolOnline Community Home Games Club, and information on how to join the club
may be found HERE.

Hope to see you there!

Joss


2 Time Bracelet Winner


 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 12:36 PM
(#6)
maDe91's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 47
Thanks alot for the responses guys. I'll check your blog(slettuce) when I come back from my football game later this evening. I've got a good indication now on what ROI is considered decent and what kinda sample size I'll need to draw usefull conclusions ^^

So far not going so well, but imo mainly because I am just running really bad.. losing like 75% of flips and getting sucked out on with overpairs against 2 unders regularly or with like KK vs Ax A LOT. Getting it in good most of the time and not really sucking out myself in case I get it in bad or happen to run big pocket pairs into AA

Still playing breakeven so far after 140 1.50 turbo's. Starting to notice that I am improving a lot. recognizing more and more spots to take advantage of weak players and chip up a lot in 5 or 4 handed play mainly.
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 03:24 PM
(#7)
brettnz's Avatar
Since: Aug 2011
Posts: 377
Hi here is just a couple of thoughts on STTSNG ,I moved from 6max normal to turbo as the rake was better so improved ROI/hour rate ,but variance did swing a lot more than I expected.
As for hypers I dont think until your got your game locked down you should touch them.I play a few 6 max hyper satty in low BI events eg- Big$2.20 -Hot $5.50 ,These are great for earning TS$ fast providing your push/fold game is solid.BUT the swings can be soul destroying if your new to the game.
Finally my mantra for STTSNGs standard speed is "Fold To The Money" Im the total rock until the lags have given me their chips lol.
Good Luck


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