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0.01/0.02 NLHE Zoom - Good fold with QQ but should I have folded preflop?

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0.01/0.02 NLHE Zoom - Good fold with QQ but should I have folded preflop? - Sat Oct 19, 2013, 10:47 AM
(#1)
Rob Sharona's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 120
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...774_70D10E1415

I maybe should have raised more initially after 1 limper, but still got a MASSIVE reraise and one caller. Is there logic to folding QQ here, or should I see a flop to try and spike another Q?
 
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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 12:12 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
You dont have the odds to set-mine which means, IMO, that if you are going to fold on a safe looking flop then you either get it in or fold here.

Personally, I would fold, unless there was some indication that one of the two that went to showdown are spewy.

The 3bet squeeze is strong. The JJ hand should have folded too and got lucky.

I'd watch your raise size though 6c over a limper isnt big enough for me. Should be 8-10c.
 
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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 02:16 PM
(#3)
ArtySmokesPS's Avatar
Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,363
Your initial raise is too small. Add at least 1bb to your open to try and isolated the limper. The 3-bet squeeze is very concerning, as 2NL villains don't squeeze light very often. His range is pretty much QQ+/AK. With QQ on a regular 6-max table I usually commit to stacking off pre against anyone but an ubernit, as you can 4-bet and get called or shoved on by worse. On Zoom, however, villains are much nittier in general, so you should give them more credit.
In this spot, I think you're behind too often to 4-bet (you'll get valueowned by KK+, and 4-betting and then folding to a shove is basically spew, as it's akin to "raising for info"), so that only leaves folding or calling as reasonable options.
The cold call by the big blind looks like QQ-99 hoping to go set-mining, even though he's too short to do so, but the dead money he adds to the pot makes this a closer decision for you.
If you call, it's pretty much to go set-mining, as an overpair is no good if villain has KK+. So let's do the math and see if it's profitable. Assuming the 3-bettor is the guy that will pay you off if you hit a set vs his overpair, you stand to win the rest of his stack ($1.61) plus the money already in the middle (70c) and the price of calling is 22c. Your implied odds are therefore (161+70):22 = 231:22 = 10.5:1
When set-mining I want implied odds of 15:1 or better, so I think that makes this a fold pre. You won't hit a set and stack the PFR often enough to make back the cost of calling his 3-bet.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Arty


Bracelet Winner
 
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Sat Oct 19, 2013, 06:23 PM
(#4)
Rob Sharona's Avatar
Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokesPS View Post
So let's do the math and see if it's profitable. Assuming the 3-bettor is the guy that will pay you off if you hit a set vs his overpair, you stand to win the rest of his stack ($1.61) plus the money already in the middle (70c) and the price of calling is 22c. Your implied odds are therefore (161+70):22 = 231:22 = 10.5:1
When set-mining I want implied odds of 15:1 or better, so I think that makes this a fold pre. You won't hit a set and stack the PFR often enough to make back the cost of calling his 3-bet.
This part literally made me understand implied odds better than I ever have before! I always just kind of assumed I knew the general idea of implied odds, but nothing really specific.

Nice one guys!
 
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Mon Oct 21, 2013, 07:07 AM
(#5)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Hey Rob,

Interesting spot... Personally, I would not fold QQ (IP) p/f to a 3bet [SB] + 1 caller [BB] at 2NL Zoom (6 max) & I think flatting in this spot is fine & not purely for set mining purposes? Even if we assume SB is 3betting with QQ+ AKs AKo & BB is calling with TT+ AJs+ AQo+ [... although in reality I've seen Villains 3 bet / squeeze with much wider ranges from Blinds] we still have decent equity against their ranges & OTF are only losing to AA, KK [... as I don't see either with 33; 44; 66] & flipping Vs .

That said, given 'post-flop' action it is a shove / fold decision... SB makes a healthy cbet & BB calls, I think your fold is decent, because we're likely up against AA, KK, too often to stack off here... Nice fold!

GL at the tables.

BR Tony [Prodigy237]

P.S. As others have already mentioned... I would raise more Vs initial limper.

Last edited by Prodigy237; Mon Oct 21, 2013 at 08:16 AM.. Reason: Added
 

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