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analyse pls :p zoom no info

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analyse pls :p zoom no info - Tue Oct 22, 2013, 04:52 AM
(#1)
GayLooser's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 62
BronzeStar
KQ
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=8361F0FE4A



AQ
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=075C896052


TT - to not be negative, i played like baoss this one hand
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/rep...ash=E4429B37FA
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 06:30 AM
(#2)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
H1: Why are we donking the turn? I might even c/f the turn if he bombs it, but in most scenarios check/calling is much better than donking. When we get raised we are never ahead so i'd just fold rather than call and face a river shove (or shove over his raise like you did)

H2: I don't like 3betting a UTG raiser with AQ. We will usually fold out any hands that we dominated preflop. As played I think calling is better OTF. Getting stacks in with top pair decent kicker will rarely yield good results.

H3: TT is basically a setmining hard given the positional action (3b a utg raiser). We are getting good odds pre to bink our set so check/folding when we miss seems fine.

PS: Try and keep it to one hand a thread.

Last edited by birdayy; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 11:51 AM..
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:15 AM
(#3)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hey GL!

Firstly, please only post one hand per thread for analysis in the future. This helps keep the discussion clear allowing everyone to know exacty which and we are referring to. There is no problem getting three hands analyzed, just make three separate threads

First Hand Your preflop raise is a bit heavy. If you are going to raise, just make it the standard 3bb plus 1 bb for the limper – 8c. Raising more risks getting your value owned. Actually, since you are readless, I think you are better just calling behind since your hand plays well postflop. Once the villain calls, we can assume that most of his limp-calling range consists of non-premium pocket pairs, suited connectors and perhaps Axs and broadway cards.

On the flop is when a read on the villain would really help. Leading out with a c-bet is fine. It protects your tp hand but it allows the villain to raise you. What hands would he take this line with? From a value perspective, 33 and 99 are possible as well as AQ. We don’t know if Q9 is in the villain’s range or if he would bet a flush or straight draw so aggressively. At this point it becomes hard to know if you are ahead in the hand. You are getting great odds to continue. However, your hand doesn’t have much potential to improve. If we assume the villain has a set, then you are behind even if you turn a Q or K. If he has J10o, then a K will give him a straight. Nor can we count the Q and K of clubs as good outs. In other words, all the turn/river cards that can improve your hand may also be improving the villains leaving you with the second best hand. The villain’s deep stack would be nice to win, but this doesn’t look like the best spot to get all our chips in with top pair and decent kicker.

You could call, but we will have to fold to any turn bet. Therefore, folding now looks like your best option.

As played, you should check the turn and try to keep the pot under control. I don’t expect the villain to be raising again here without a set or perhaps a very strong draw with J10 of clubs.
When we are deep stacked, we need to be very careful about playing big pots. You should have a good read on the villain and a strong hand (set or better) before risking everything.

Second hand 3betting preflop can be fine with AQo although at 2NL I often just call behind when I have postion on the raiser. I don't want to inflate the pot until I have a made hand. Similar to the previous hand, you overplay your top pair hand here. The villain raised utg and called your 3bet and now donks into this board. He might be doing this with a strong draw, but AK and A10s are probably in his range as well. I prefer calling his bet rather than raising. This keeps the pot under control allowing you to reevaluate on the turn.

As played, the villain bets 20c and you make a huge raise to 70c!? This gets you value owned. All the hands you are beating will presumably fold and only the hands beating you will continue. When the villain 3bets you all in, you can again be fairly certain that he is not bluffing. Folding would have been best. A standard raise (not 3bet) is a bit more than the bet.

At 2NL you want to value bet your strong made hands, but as a general rule (especially since you are playing readless) you want to have a set or better before committing your entire stack. Try to be patient and wait for these spots. That way you will be losing small pots and winning big ones

Final hand Normally you should fold to a 3bet when oop. Here the extra caller makes calling behind as the last to act fine. Good fold on the flop, especially with a guy left to act after you.

One final note GL: Playing Zoom without a HUD doesn’t have to be readless. You can use the hand replayer to review hands, especially those that go to a showdown. Use this information to take notes on the villains. These will be handy next time you encounter the villain, which on Zoom, will happen quite soon.

GL and have fun at the tables!

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 01:09 PM
(#4)
GayLooser's Avatar
Since: May 2013
Posts: 62
BronzeStar
i know im just some noob, but i played about 30k hands alrdy in 2NL/5NL zoom(its same thing) , and as im reading some things what u and birday said, i have to disagree with a lot of things.

A lot of zoom players calls u with super-ultra-mega wide range especialy on flop and also but less on turn . This range includes any small pocket pair they call to river hoping to hit set.... any flush or straight draw ... they call pot-sized-bets immediately ....

with the hand AQ on Ax9cTc i was gettin value from a lot of hands they could have and would definitely call with ( mostly for JQ JK J8 .... any flush draw... any small pocket pair, and worse ace ), so if i did hit Q on turn or the 3rd flush card came, i would switch to checkcall/checkfold

same for KQ hand on 9Q3... i knew that if turn comes K , i would have to tighten up...

from what u saying... get money in w/ set or better.... i dont agree with this... though it might be not worst play but u r missing on a lot of value then sometimes.... a lot of times happens for example that i hit my set on flop and turn river comes worst cards possible making 4 cards straight and or 4 card flush like i.e: i have 88 and flop is 8TK, turn 9 river J so i ofcourse end up folding here a lot cuz they bet at me big there all the time

and when flop is like 8J2 or 8K2 and u have 88... then most of the time u just dont get any value , maybe a lil bit of value from some loose AK-player....
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 02:39 PM
(#5)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Hi again GayLooser,

I'll try to explain myself again.

1. I'm not saying blindly get all your chips in the middle every time you flop a set, straight or flush. I was trying to say that you don't want to be getting all in with weaker hands such as one pair as in the KQ and AQ above. These are both spots where you over played (over valued) a single pair.

2. I do miss out on some value when playing 2NL with my approach, but for a reason. I focus on spots where I am clearly ahead because there are so many players willing to stack off with weaker hands against me in these spots. With less strong hands, I might go for one or two streets of value, but play cautiously. This approach ensures that I am consistently winning big pots and losing small ones. Here is an older post where I talk a bit about my approach at microstakes.
http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/for...e+golden+rules

You don't need to take my word for it either. I learned this approach from the head coach Dave who outlines his Golden Rules in this post nr 70.

I hope this helps to clarify things

Roland GTX
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 03:05 PM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GayLooser View Post
A lot of zoom players calls u with super-ultra-mega wide range especialy on flop and also but less on turn . This range includes any small pocket pair they call to river hoping to hit set.... any flush or straight draw ... they call pot-sized-bets immediately ....

with the hand AQ on Ax9cTc i was gettin value from a lot of hands they could have and would definitely call with ( mostly for JQ JK J8 .... any flush draw... any small pocket pair, and worse ace ), so if i did hit Q on turn or the 3rd flush card came, i would switch to checkcall/checkfold

same for KQ hand on 9Q3... i knew that if turn comes K , i would have to tighten up...
While 2NL players tend, in general, to make a lot of calling mistakes, in both the KQ and AQ hands they were not calling, they were raising. BOTH of these hands would be good spots to bet/fold... extracting value from their loose calling ranges, and getting away from 2nd best hands when we're beat.


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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 03:20 PM
(#7)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,499
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post
You don't need to take my word for it either. I learned this approach from the head coach Dave who outlines his Golden Rules in this post nr 70.
Thanks for the reference link! To be clear, I did not originate these 3 golden rules to beating microstakes... I think I first heard them in a training series from BalugaWhale quite some time ago. The clarification paragraphs I can take all the credit for though.


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