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5NL Zoom (6 max) - AKo in 3bet m/w pot

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5NL Zoom (6 max) - AKo in 3bet m/w pot - Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:46 AM
(#1)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
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As mentioned in my previous post earlier today... I've seen some strange hands this week, but think this one takes the prize.

Background:

My stats: 15/10/4 AF 1.75
No information or reads on either Villain [... although both started with less than 100BB, so unlikely 5NL regs].

Pre-flop: Hero:

Against a limper & BTN R... I opted to 3bet with in the BB & get 2 callers!!!

Flop:

Flop is GIN... as xflixx would say, but poss of being o/drawn on later streets if board pairs Vs QQ; JJ; TT & TP combos!!!

My thoughts turned to how best to get all the chips in the middle, but I did wonder what hand CO limps & then flats a 3bet with BTN still to act behind? It crossed my mind that CO could be slow playing AA or KK [... or mid pps], but when faced with a 3bet would expect Villain to ship the rest of his chips p/f?

Questions:

1). What hands limps / flat calls a 3bet p/f?
2). What line would you take to achieve objective / max value:

a) Open shove OTF?
b) Lead out with small cbet OTF & obviously call a shove?
c) Check to induce bluff & then shove OTF?

Welcome your thoughts / comments.

BR Tony [Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 10:03 AM.. Reason: Added
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 10:23 AM
(#2)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
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1) All kind of hands, SPP, SC, AT AJ KJ, KQ etc..

2)I would bet exactly $.57 so that when shortack shove, we can shove the rest of our stack, also puts enough money in the pot for a good size shove on the turn if CO calls and shortack calls/folds.

Last edited by CaRLoS_DZ87; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 10:31 AM..
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 10:39 AM
(#3)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Hi Prodigy,

I'm a mewbie..ish to poker, but thought I would just add my 2 cent, but maybe take it with a pinch of salt.


This answer is with regards to question 2b. I don't think you should lead out with a small bet on this flop. The pot is multiway and if villian's have a set on this flop, which could be possible, I think you would give them the right odds to call hoping to to hit the full house.


For example,


say one of the villain's has TT+, AK given that the button 3bet (dependent on what you know about villian)


Then your hand against that range is around 74% vs 25% favourite.

If you say bet half pot so the pot becomes $1.98 + 0.99c = $2.97, giving the first villain around 3:1 odds (2.97/0.99) This equates to a minimum equity of 1/4 or 25%, so it will be profitable for them in the long run to call your bet hoping to hit on the turn. And that's just with the first villain, if he calls, then the second villain is getting even better odds if he has QQ, etc.


I hope what I wrote is helpful in some way.


Cheers,

Pullin

Last edited by pullin1988; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 11:04 AM..
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:00 AM
(#4)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,481
(Head Trainer)
Hi Prodigy,


1) All the typical fish hands. We don't really know without a read exactly how to range him. If he's a tight-passive fish, it's probably 99+, AQ+ for example. If he's a loose fish, it could be any pair, 75s, etc.

2) I like a lead of about .85c here. I think overbet shoving or leading small enough to reshove if V1 raises all in looks too scary to V6, and we don't want to blow him out of the pot when we have the nuts, we want to go for his stack. Our lead allows hands like AQ or AJ to call drawing dead to a chop, tying them further into the pot. If we lead for this, V6 calls, and V1 shoves, we won't be able to reraise but V6 is going to call again behind us. Now we'll have 5.46 in the pot and V6 will only have 1.94 left, so will likely feel compelled to call off the rest now with anything he was willing to call the flop with.


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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:08 AM
(#5)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,481
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pullin1988 View Post
Hi Prodigy,

I'm a mewbie..ish to poker, but thought I would just add my 2 cent, but maybe take it with a pinch of salt.


This answer is with regards to question 2b. I don't think you should lead out with a small bet on this flop. The pot is multiway and if villian's have a set on this flop, which could be possible, I think you would give them the right odds to call hoping to to hit the full house.


For example,


say one of the villain's has TT+, AK given that the button 3bet (dependent on what you know about villian)


Then your hand against that range is around 74% vs 25% favourite.

If you say bet half pot so the pot becomes $1.98 + 0.99c = $2.97, giving the first villain around 3:1 odds (2.97/0.99) This equates to a minimum equity of 1/4 or 25%, so it will be profitable for them in the long run to call your bet hoping to hit on the turn. And that's just with the first villain, if he calls, then the second villain is getting even better odds if he has QQ, etc.

Another way (although might be more difficult with two villains) is to calculate your all-in equity.

I hope what I wrote is helpful in some way.


Cheers,

Pullin
The button wasn't 3-betting, he raised a limper and we put in the 3-bet. So his range is wider than TT+, AK for sure.

I don't think we have to worry too much about sets here, surely they are in both ranges (more so the buttons) but I don't see those hands ever folding at microstakes... if we bet big they will at least call, if not raise. If we bet small, they will probably raise.

I think we should largely discount the button here, as his range is stronger based on preflop action (he probably hits this flop often) and he has a short stack with about a half pot bet left. If he hits the board his money is going in. It's better to focus on the deeper stacks range, and assuming he would never fold a strong connection to the board, and would always fold a miss, target the mid strength hands like top pair, 2nd pair, and draws to get action from those.


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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:48 AM
(#6)
CaRLoS_DZ87's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
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Quote:
Now we'll have 5.46 in the pot and V6 will only have 1.94 left, so will likely feel compelled to call off the rest now with anything he was willing to call the flop with.
What would be your line if turn pairs the board?

Thanks.
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:50 AM
(#7)
pullin1988's Avatar
Since: Apr 2013
Posts: 717
Cheers,

YOur helping me as well as Prodigy.


I thought it was a 3bet - my bad.


Cheers,

Pullin
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 01:17 PM
(#8)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Hi Dave (Carlos & pullin),

Thank you for your input / feedback. My original intention was to isolate V1 [BTN], however after both Villains called p/f... my focus changed after hitting the nuts to getting 'all' the chips / maximising value.

Not wanting to scare either Villain off, I decided Option C was more favourable deciding to 'x' OTF to induce a bet / bluff from one or both [... & then shove]. Whilst we risk giving a free card its not unreasonable to assume with the board texture that it hit all of us reasonable hard, so was fairly confident one or both would take a stab, half expecting V6 to poss 'x' behind & V1 to shove given stack sizes & p/f aggression.

What happened next surprised me a little... V6 led out betting $1.35 [... unfortunately V1 folded], so I shoved [as planned] & V6 snap called, showing TP.

Here's how the hand played out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CaRLoS_DZ87 View Post
What would be your line if turn pairs the board?

Thanks.
[Dave] Carlos does raise an interesting question... I am happy to get it 'all in' OTF, but if we lead out & get one or more calls & the board pairs OTT. What next?

Thanks

Tony [Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 01:43 PM..
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 02:36 PM
(#9)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,481
(Head Trainer)
With the villain having less than a half pot bet remaining in his stack, my turn action will be an all in wager if called on the flop. I don't care what card comes.

The question seems to carry an underlying concern that the board pairing beats us. Be careful not to over-complicate things and level yourself into a bad fold when the pot is huge relative to the remaining stacks and our hand strength very strong. If someone makes a full house here they are going to get my money.

Also I think the board pairing is less of a concern when our flop bet is just called, as 2 pair and sets are more likely to raise on the flop to protect their hand. If we bet the flop and get shoved on, that's when the board pairing is most scary.


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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:36 PM
(#10)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Interesting hand and some great points. Thanks guys if I get in a similar spot I should be better equipped.
 

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