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2NL Zoom 6max - UTG QQ all in PF

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2NL Zoom 6max - UTG QQ all in PF - Tue Oct 22, 2013, 04:04 PM
(#1)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
I find I slowly work my money up and then keep running into spots like this and was wondering if I should be playing it more passive since it's only 2NL and playing more post flop. Just thought allot of dead money up for grabs and the guy had 3bet from the big blind 40(10). If I 4bet smaller and Villan 1 shoved could I of got away or would you still be calling it off

villan 1 = VPIP 18 PFR 5 3bet 0 23 hands
villan 3 = VPIP 19 PFR 16 3bet 19.4 98 hands 3bet in bb =40(10)

Is BOOM ok? Just so much easier

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...470_4F926FF378
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 04:19 PM
(#2)
bhoylegend's Avatar
Since: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,261
This is an awkward one.

With the 3bet stats of villain 3 he could easily be doing this relatively light albeit that could still be with an overcard to our hand. I would hate to call the squeeze, and with his aggression, I would hate to fold, so I dont actually mind the shove in this spot. We're highly unfortunate that the way this played out villain 1 got rewarded for his play with KK, we were unlucky that he had KK.

So I think the shove was the right move.

A smaller 4bet would be around the 65-75c mark or so and I would hate to put that much in and fold without seeing a flop. Assuming villain 1 proceeded to shove and didnt just call again which really would be horrible by him.
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 05:20 PM
(#3)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Hi Mikey,

I'm not a big fan of shoving with QQ in m/w pot unless it is to isolate & more importantly we can close the action. In this case you still have two Villains to act behind you + BB & whilst you're a little unlucky to run in to KK... I don't have to tell you that our equity reduces significantly with QQ Vs multiple Villains in m/w pot.

Personally, I think I would flat the BB as we're almost always dominating his range [... although it is only small sample]. Our main issue is what V1 then does holding KK in response to the 3bet + 1 caller [You] assuming V6 folds... If he shoves & BB calls I might be able to find a fold here as we're going to be up against AA; KK too often?

Below is an example of a v similar hand I played yesterday... The only difference is that I was able to close the action & isolate the BB after both the original PFR & Btn folded to BBs 3bet.

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...669_D003D1263E

I hope this is helpful.

BR Tony [Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 05:52 PM.. Reason: Added
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:24 PM
(#4)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Thanks for the replies

That was my line of thinking Bhoylegend but finding this happening more than usual lately and was wondering maybe it is something I need to look at or maybe it's just one of them things that will even out


Thanks for the reply Prodigy. I don't like flatting with QQ in your spot as you price in the BB to call with allot of hands and your in a 4way pot. I have found that either an over card flops and I have to give up or a wet flop and with 3 villans I end up against a very good drawing hand. Maybe it is something I should be including in my game. Out of interest why did you flat then over shove? Did the player in the BB have a big squeeze or 3bet %?
 
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Tue Oct 22, 2013, 09:00 PM
(#5)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_Luggs View Post
Thanks for the replies

Thanks for the reply Prodigy. I don't like flatting with QQ in your spot as you price in the BB to call with allot of hands and your in a 4way pot. I have found that either an over card flops and I have to give up or a wet flop and with 3 villans I end up against a very good drawing hand. Maybe it is something I should be including in my game. Out of interest why did you flat then over shove? Did the player in the BB have a big squeeze or 3bet %?
Hi Mikey,

I'm trying to balance my 3bet / shove range at 2NL. The problem I have found at 2NL is most Recr players will call a shove m/w with a lot of Ax; Kx type hands & always seem to spike an A, K or random TP hands etc. When I analysed my hand histories for Sept it was playing havoc with my numbers, so I made a conscious effort this month to limit the number of m/w 'all in' pots I get involved in, particularly with QQ & it seems to have made a big difference [... maybe just a coincidence, but who knows].

As for my example... Yes, BB was a LAG with a sizable 3bet% so knew he probably couldn't resist a 3bet / squeeze given p/f action, hence flatting in the SB. I know 4betting to $1.85 or $2.00 would have done the job, but wanted to make a point [... & hoped he would call o/bet with his small / mid pps].

GL @ the tables.

Tony [Prodigy237]

Last edited by Prodigy237; Tue Oct 22, 2013 at 09:21 PM..
 
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Wed Oct 23, 2013, 12:09 AM
(#6)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Hi Mikey,

If the villain is an aggressive 3-bettor then I like 4-betting for sure, as it's a common squeeze spot that aggressive 3-bettors like to jump all over.

That being said, I would 4-bet to about .80 here... not to fold to a 5b shove (please don't put in 40% of his stack and then fold QQ preflop... 4-bet/folding QQ on 100bb stacks is a major error, if you think this is the right play when 5-bet based on reads, then you should reconsider 4-betting and consider just flatting with QQ), but to induce calling mistakes and 5b shoving mistakes. When we overbet jam it helps the villain play close to perfectly, folding any light squeezes and bluffs, stacking off QQ+ and AK, a range against which our QQ only has 40% equity. Even if he's stacking off JJ+, AK we are still a slight equity dog at 47%.


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Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:22 PM
(#7)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Thanks guys.
I never fold QQ if I decide to 4bet otherwise I would normally call if it was HU against a NIT UTG raise for example. I however can see you point about 4betting and calling a shove with QQ rather than just shoving. I can see me just shoving if folding out allot of his bluffing ranges and weaker holdings like 99 and only getting action from hands we aren't that far ahead of, but by just 4 betting we make it more appealing for these hands to get involved.
If I 4bet like you said and get flat called what is my action HU and in a multi way pot? Am I shoving any flop?
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 11:47 AM
(#8)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Bump
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 01:44 PM
(#9)
Prodigy237's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 336
BronzeStar
Hey Mikey,

Had to share this with you as it demonstrates my previous point re. Recr Players & m/w pots at 2NL, however this time I catch a break OTT to achieve max value. Enjoy.

http://www.boomplayer.com/poker-hand...477_1C4A0D10BC

Tony [Prodigy237]
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 02:19 PM
(#10)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Nice one.
If you got 4bet by either player would you of just flat called pre flop? Fold or would you be willing to get it in there?
 
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Fri Oct 25, 2013, 03:04 PM
(#11)
TheLangolier's Avatar
Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,501
(Head Trainer)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey_Luggs View Post
If I 4bet like you said and get flat called what is my action HU and in a multi way pot? Am I shoving any flop?
Even 1 caller will leave us with less than a pot sized bet left, so we'll be shoving most flops, yes. Use your head of course, if we get called in 3 places and the flop is AK3, it's ok to check/fold.


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Sat Oct 26, 2013, 05:22 AM
(#12)
Mikey_Luggs's Avatar
Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 138
Thought as much but just wanted to make sure. Thanks again for your advice
 

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