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10NL Zoom: 3b light vs known reg

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10NL Zoom: 3b light vs known reg - Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:07 PM
(#1)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
This hand is from 10NL Zoom against a well known regular (2K hands). He multitables a huge volume at 10NL, 25NL and 50NL, but plays in an extremely robotic and predictable style.

Normally, I would never 3b so light at 10NL Zoom. However, I have have widened my 3bet range considerably lately when playing at 50NL regular tables against known players. This guy seemed like a perfect candidate to make this move on considering he is so easy to outplay postflop.

The only hands I have ever seen him 4b are AA and KK. Postflop he is completely fit or fold with a fold to cbet % of 82%.



I was playing the opponent primarily but felt the A high flop was good to cbet.

Any thoughts on this line?

Thanks
Roland GTX
 
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Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:18 PM
(#2)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Looks standard to me not sure about the 87o 3bet though but if you have a read that a player 3 bet folds a ton you might as well 3bet him 24/7.
 
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Wed Oct 23, 2013, 11:50 PM
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RockerguyAA's Avatar
Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,089
BronzeStar
My thoughts on this would be to limit yourself to suited connectors when 3-betting light as it will often expand your options post-flop and maybe sizing your 3-bet slightly larger in the small blind since there is extra dead money from the BB and you are primarily looking for a fold pre-flop.

The way I look at it you should be looking to expand your light 3-betting range vs this player and 3-betting 87o implies a very wide range, likely too wide in my opinion.

Last edited by RockerguyAA; Wed Oct 23, 2013 at 11:52 PM..
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 06:28 AM
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birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
You shouldn't have a flatting range in the SB so 3betting hands like 87 is fine to balance if you usually 3b steal with Ax.

Cbetting that flop is the most standard thing ever so not much to say really.

I think these multitablers are good to candidate because they usually just auto raise OTB and play pretty straightforward postflop because so much is going on at the same time.
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 08:51 AM
(#5)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdayy View Post
You shouldn't have a flatting range in the SB so 3betting hands like 87 is fine to balance if you usually 3b steal with Ax.

Cbetting that flop is the most standard thing ever so not much to say really.

I think these multitablers are good to candidate because they usually just auto raise OTB and play pretty straightforward postflop because so much is going on at the same time.
So what do you do with hands like AJs KQs KJs QJs 88 99 TT JJ KQo? I thought they are to strong to fold but in most cases i wouldnt want to 3 bet fold these hands not to bothered about folding KJs and KQo OOP because they are pretty hard to play when you don't have the initiative and are OOP but how else can you play these hands?
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 09:17 AM
(#6)
birdayy's Avatar
Since: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2198 View Post
So what do you do with hands like AJs KQs KJs QJs 88 99 TT JJ KQo? I thought they are to strong to fold but in most cases i wouldnt want to 3 bet fold these hands not to bothered about folding KJs and KQo OOP because they are pretty hard to play when you don't have the initiative and are OOP but how else can you play these hands?
Obviously if a situation like UTG opens and you have 77 in the SB you should flat. What i'm talking about is vs a btn (and possibly even CO) steal situation.

Other factors come into play like if it's an opener that won't recognize your diluted/face-up range (the hands you basically listed).

Another problem with flatting is that it gives the BB great odds (5:1) to call with a super wide range, or a great opportunity to squeeze, which you might not necessarily want with a hand like KJs OOP.

Sean Lefort at RunItOnce said;

Quote:
For me, the crux of the issue is the fact that balancing our flatting range from the SB is simply just incredibly difficult to do given that we have to: (1) Be able to defend appropriately to BB squeezes, (2) Have a reasonably good distribution of flops that we can represent nutty hands, and (3) Keep our 3betting range balanced and defendable against 4bets. The simple fact is that our range here in general is going to be narrow (< 20%) and in my opinion this means that there's essentially not enough range to spread over your sub-ranges and create diversified balance. Thus, I opt for one range --> 3bet.
It usually becomes more important as you move up because you need to have a range that isn't face up.

Last edited by birdayy; Thu Oct 24, 2013 at 10:46 AM..
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 09:34 AM
(#7)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Yh thats what i ment vs a steal CO or a BU open, if you 3bet all those hands thats un balanced as well?

All someone has to do once they notice your 3bet in the SB is sky high is 4bet you with a wider range?
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 10:26 AM
(#8)
geoVARTA's Avatar
Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,306
I like it Greg though I prefer to be suited and with slightly higher cards, but good follow on your reads!

I've actually had a blog post on 3betting these kind of hands OOP vs steals: http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blo...ief-of-thieves

Just to comment on birdayy's post about not having a call range from the SB.
I think we can be profitable with a calling range against wide BTN opens because we dominate their steal hands when we call with KQ, AJ, AQ, etc. When by 3betting them they could 4bet us light and blow us off our hands that beat their steal range. Though we mostly have to play fit or fold, but I think there are good opportunities to be x/r-ing too. As for the quote from Sean Lefort, I totally agree that balancing a flatting range from the SB is difficult because our range is too narrow but I think we might be taking less EV line by 3betting hands like KQ, AJ, AQ, TT-77. Though both lines are +EV, I feel calling with these hands is more +EV. Just my opinion. Obviously, it's important to be looking at BB squeeze tendancies. So forexample if they have a high Sqz % I would elect to 3bet KQ, call/shove with TT if they squeeze.
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 10:45 AM
(#9)
Roland GTX's Avatar
Since: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,905
Good stuff guys!

I agree that 3b with 78o is not the best idea. Here I am 3betting primarily because this villain is easy to get to fold postflop. I don't think he would ever expect me to do this vs him on Zoom.

Regarding calling in the sb. I will typically call with speculative hands in situations where there is an ep raise AND at least one caller since this gives me great implied odds, especially if the ep guy has a big pair that he can't fold.

Also, against villains who steal often, but fold to a 3bet, I will often flat a lot of my top end hands such as AQs+ because they play well postflop AND I expect to win more by calling and letting him follow up with a cbet compared to 3b pre and often getting a fold.

I do take a quick look at the bb stats before calling from the sb though in all cases.

I think there are enough bad players who never range their opponent at the microstakes to make calling from the sb a valid line. Point being, you ought to have a good reason to do so and a plan for the rest of the hand.

Thanks!

Roland GTX
 
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Thu Oct 24, 2013, 11:44 AM
(#10)
mike2198's Avatar
Since: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland GTX View Post

I think there are enough bad players who never range their opponent at the microstakes to make calling from the sb a valid line. Point being, you ought to have a good reason to do so and a plan for the rest of the hand.

Thanks!

Roland GTX
This is it even if you are ranging its impossible to give anyone a preflop range of hands without a big sample of hands at zoom and even then it might not be accurate so i doubt anyone is gonna figure out what i flat in the SB.

Its like if a player with reasonable stats flat my UTG open from UTG+1 i dont expect to see 67s but i have seen it alot and the same goes for 3betting i dont expect to see someone with vpip of 8 to flat my squeeze with JTo when i have AA but i see that as well maybe im missing something when it comes to ranging players preflop but its no good looking at what range i flat UTG+1 when someone opens UTG because they can have all sorts.
 

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